Don't nerf bosses until next patch. Nerf trash and potentially increase loots, that's nerf enough as Vashj and KT will be significantly easier with p2 geared raid. If there are design flaws, make sure you fix them during PTR or the first week. We want the challenge, not months long gear farming.. For 10/10 guilds who feel like they're bored, create your own challenges to make it harder, for example 20man or something like that. For guilds who are gear farming and think Vashj/KT is unnecessary hard and "time waste" and just want to prepare for P3, increase raid efficiency through self-improvement. I'm in a causal raiding guild who's been struggling with good raid comp and consistent attendance, we are at 8/10 but are progressing and will likely kill both soon, it would suck if you nerfed it now for us when we spent weeks improving. For those with not enough time and want to experience the encounters and get the kills, don't worry, you can kill them next phase too.
i wouldn't mind the mind control change on vashj, but outside of that id leave it alone until next phase
We are now at 9/10 cause we killed Vashj yesterday, we are on our way with KT. Got killed by the fireball bug in RP stage last week. We will kill it this week! Nerf when BT launches pls.
Do not nerf till BT patch pls. We are having fun learning and improving the fight. Hate to take that away from others. Gruul nerf was perfect timing. Nerf only on phase patches.
To the "They cleared it back then, if you cant clear it your trash" What I can find the adds on P2 Lady vashj should have 170k hp. both Coilfang strider and Coilfang elite. Method who was World 2nd on lady vashj killed Striders in 20-25 seconds while Progress do it on 30-35 seconds. And I'm pretty sure Progress do more damage now than Method back then. So the 410k Strider is ridiculous. No one fought against vashj with 410k striders before classic. And yes this is what my casual guild struggles with. I say do a full nerf now so casual guilds have a couple of weeks trying to clear nerfed T5 before Black temple hit. youtube /SYypbzs9d44?t=371youtube /FEYAX7l5H6A?t=2563
My guild is 8/10 with 3 raid nights a week. I really enjoy trying to progress on Kael and Vashj. I hope they postpone the nerfs until early next year.
How about don't nerf the bosses but increase the loot-tables instead? Maybe I am wrong but it seems that improving the gear is the natural way to "nerf" a boss. Our guild have ~10 casters and so far, zero Mindstorm Wristbands. Zero Belt/Boots of blasting. One Fang of the Leviathan. One Wand of the Forgotten Star.. The gearing progress seems is a bit silly to me in TBC.. If you clear two raids a week you probably want 1-2 gear improvements every 2-3 weeks don't you?
I definitely woulden't mind if the Vashj Mind Control mechanic had some sort of counter play implemented besides Taunt (maybe Silences/Roots could work). Now it's just too much dependant on RNG. We've killed her quite a few times now and it always comes down to who get's MC'd and how often.The rest of the encounters seem fine.
Please no nerfs until next phase. We are not that far off!It is healthy for the game to have a challenge. I know it is difficult to see attrition from those who struggle, but premature nerfing will lead to attrition and disenfranchisement from the dedicated players (ie the main target audience of Classic) and the former are not going to stick around anyway. Retail has been iterated on to satisfy these various demographics, so these are players that should naturally gravitate towards that route and have that option!A balanced way to target attrition is to introduce dual spec. Spec flexibility in raids when people don't show up + more dungeon participation to help attune laggards + more pvp participation.
Nerf now.The raids are too long. This game isn't just for no-lifers.
Basically all the comments reads to:- Don't nerf them because we are 10/10 and want to keep the exclusiveness. git gud- Don't nerf them because we are going to kill them this week for sure and want the real challenge.- Do nerf them because we struggle filling our group.- Do nerf them because raids are too long and we run out of time.Reminds me of the debates when BG queue times where super long for horde. This time the ones getting hit are the more casual players, which are the majority and usually don't have a voice on this kind of sites or forums.Personally I'm ok with the current difficulty, we are 6/10 (we downed Al'ar for the first time last week yay!) and like the extra challenge as long as raids/fights don't get become a chore of having to farm a dumb amount of niche consumables every week. But any nerf is welcome as long as it helps in keeping the player base up and prevents players from losing interest/burn-out, what's the point of having challenging raids if there is no one else to play them with?
My Guild is currently 9/10 and we were happy the nerfs didn't come to KT prior to us killing. We are hoping to go 10/10 this week. I will say for us being a 2 night guild with many roster changes that have slowed our progression I wish maybe the trash was nerfed or the respawn timer was longer so we could get more prog on Vashj instead of feeling rushed at the end of raid or dealing with trash respawns.
Personally, i am indifferent to the nerfs, I enjoy the current state of the raids. Though I am bias. because my guild has them on farm. I can understand the frustration for guilds and players who struggle due to not having a full raid team. Perhaps creating a difficulty modifier as like "heroic" or "mythic" was implemented, but the "heroic" difficulty is the current difficulty of the raid and normal is is the "nerfed" version. Though i am positive a change like this would take time and resources and isn't something that would happen overnight, it could resolve the concerns and pleas from both sides of the spectrum in the future. Also in the realm of player base, the fact that the player base is shrinking shouldn't surprise anyone. We are playing an expansion released 15 years ago. Sure you are going to have a player base who never experienced some previous expansion and if that's you I hope you get a genuine enjoyment of the game or at least get an experience / basis of the games history and what it evolved from. But you also have to remember that a part of the player base is made up by players that have experienced TBC upon its original release and came back for the sake of nostalgia. From personal experience and not fact, I've found for me at least. Once that craving of nostalgia is filled, good or bad, long or short lived, I move on. Also, like any product that collects hype, it slowly withers away naturally over time. And though it may still exist, the relevance dies. WoW classic is a prime example. TBC came out, WoW classic died. Though it still exists, its relevance for the majority died. Just my opinion of course and purely a subjective view.
My guild is 9/10, having 20ish people and pug-ing the rest.On TK: Frankly the 10% nerf on weapons would do absolutely nothing. The 10% nerf on advisors is something, but it would in no way reduce the need for following tactics. The raid itself is not really made much easier either way.on SSC: The MC on Vashj is an annoying RNG, because it could do nothing and could also wipe us. So I guess this nerf would reduce the RNG and could geniunely make the raid easier. But again, not exactly making it a walk in the park.In short don't expect to clear the raids even if you ever get these nerfs. Unless you've been wiping with the boss on 1-2%.
One problem of this discussion is that people already left the game are unlikely to come back and comment. It's hard to chase after them and ask for their feedback so the opinions right here right now might be biased.I'm 10/10 already, but personally I still prefer faster raid so nerfing the trash is a good start. Hopefully this will recall some of the people who were 8/10 or 9/10 and encourge them to reach 10/10.
Nerf them please.