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Ben Brode Discusses Ragnaros, Lightlord - Lore in Hearthstone
Hearthstone
Posted
2016/03/28 at 5:48 PM
by
Skiffington
All it takes is one look at the Hearthstone community to see how loud the response to has been. While some were just happy to see something interesting being done with the
Whispers of the Old Gods
set, others had their concerns due to Warcraft lore, believing that our jovial card game should try to stick closer to what is canon. And to clarify, many from
the development teams of both games confirm
that this isn't something that is grounded in the history of Warcraft. That said, Lead Designer Ben Brode reminds us that in the end, Hearthstone is a card game inside of Warcraft. He took some time to respond to players last night in what makes for an interesting read, especially if you're on the fence regarding the whole matter.
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Comment by
1350725
on 2016-03-29T11:35:08-05:00
Of course, this is all a matter of personal opinion, but, for an expansion based on corruption and its precursors, Blizzard would be kind of limited and losing a great opportunity, if they would not allow themselves to print corrupted versions of well known characters, just because they are already in the game as classic cards.
I'll agree with this, but it's a minor point that I don't think anyone has argued against (also known as a "straw man argument"). One of the first cards they announced was the ; the "normal" will continue to be playable in standard. As far as I'm aware, this has not been controversial at all.
The controversy around the concept stems from the fact that it's taking the
entire premise
of the expansion--that the Old Gods are coming and corrupting everything!--and just saying, "meh, we thought this would be fun as well." Brode touched on this when he said,
"to me it was fun to twist good guys to evil because of corruption so we wanted to (just for paladin) explore the other way."
He acknowledges that this expansion is about corruption, but acknowledges that the change to was just because "to me it was fun".
This seems kind of like if the Naxxramas expansion, which was largely built around deathrattles and undead creatures, had included . Is she a fun card? Sure, I love including her, and I'm glad they released it. But does she fit in the Naxxramas expansion, either in terms of lore or theme? Absolutely not. Yeah, you could make an argument that she might've been exploring a tomb or some such, but honestly, everyone would agree that that was stretching things a bit.
If a card doesn't fit an expansion in terms of lore or theme, it should wait until they come up with an expansion it does fit in, no matter how fun any one developer thinks it is. Brode has acknowledged that doesn't follow any established lore and doesn't follow the theme of the Old Gods expansion. That, to me, is grounds enough for it to be left on the shelf.
Perhaps the next expansion could be a redemption themed one, and include the Lightlord as well as a "blessed" version of , among others. That'd be pretty darn cool, if you ask me.
Comment by
Nulgar
on 2016-03-29T12:12:08-05:00
The story in Dragonball Z
was two guys charging up their ultimate attack every episode.
Comment by
Thrombin2
on 2016-03-29T12:15:33-05:00
The controversy around the concept stems from the fact that it's taking the
entire premise
of the expansion--that the Old Gods are coming and corrupting everything!--and just saying, "meh, we thought this would be fun as well." Brode touched on this when he said,
"to me it was fun to twist good guys to evil because of corruption so we wanted to (just for paladin) explore the other way."
He acknowledges that this expansion is about corruption, but acknowledges that the change to was just because "to me it was fun".
Yeah, my biggest issue is not so much the Lore as the flavour not fitting the theme. To me it's just a minor niggle though. I'm not angry with Blizzard about it, just a little bemused. It should still be an interesting card to play.
Comment by
749141
on 2016-03-29T14:54:05-05:00
Ragnaros was featured in blizzard's March badness to go from that to being a servant of the light even if it's only in a silly card game is just to much for our suspension of disbelief to bare
Suspension of disbelief for this game went out the window the first time you summoned Ragnaros the Firelord and bound him to your will as a Warrior, Rogue or Hunter with zero knowledge of elemental or summoning magics, just saying.
Ragnaros and all minions are bound to their cards not to your will if you want to get technical
Comment by
749141
on 2016-03-29T15:01:35-05:00
Here's my take on Rag:
He's like Lex Luthor teaming up with superman to fight Darkside.
He's still Lex Luthor. There are just more pressing matters at hand than fighting Supes.
That's how Rag would fit into this universe. he doesnt change, he just redirects his wrath and he will go back to crushing mortals later.
But the lightlord theme is more on the line of Piccolo or Vegeta in Dragonball Z.
They were introduced as the ultimate evil and ended up as friendly neighbour good guys. (more or less)
This works in DBZ because you have a story to make it believeable.
In Hearthstone you only have a Tweet.
Except why wouldn't Rag join the Old Gods?
Comment by
749141
on 2016-03-29T15:04:05-05:00
...who cares if it's possible or not ? Can we just have fun ?
People seemingly always need to be angry about something. My personal advice is to just ignore them and not give them the controversy they want.
Belittling others opinions is never useful and is always inflammatory.
People are upset because hearthstone has followed lore for 3 years now and all of a sudden pretends they don't care about it anymore. Kind of silly if you ask me. If they wanted to mess around with lore 3 years ago then it would have been cute and silly(like HotS), they made a precedent that hearthstone would follow lore, but to make a U-turn 3 years down the line it seems lazy, it seems like less of a design choice and more of a choice so they didn't have to think anymore.
Also the comparison ben brode made between hogger and rag is silly.
I love how we corrupted Hogger and everyone was like "yeah sure" and then we twisted Ragnaros and people are like "noooo my lore"
Either way, all of the "corrupted" cards are beyond lazy, they are just reprints with slightly different abilities. There are so many unused characters and they decided to double down on classic cards that are still playable.
Hearthstone just turned 2 if you count from release
Comment by
749141
on 2016-03-29T15:06:34-05:00
Ragnaros was featured in blizzard's March badness to go from that to being a servant of the light even if it's only in a silly card game is just to much for our suspension of disbalief to bare
(sic)
If it makes you feel better, pretend Ragnaros enslaved M'uru the naaru and is sapping his holy power. Evidently that "fits" in WoW lore.
Well that would be a hell of a trick since M'uru is dead and his essence purified the Sun Well
Comment by
Slurpeemourne
on 2016-03-30T07:48:52-05:00
Ragnaros was featured in blizzard's March badness to go from that to being a servant of the light even if it's only in a silly card game is just to much for our suspension of disbalief to bare
(sic)
If it makes you feel better, pretend Ragnaros enslaved M'uru the naaru and is sapping his holy power. Evidently that "fits" in WoW lore.
Well that would be a hell of a trick since M'uru is dead and his essence purified the Sun Well
Wait, we're arguing chronology in a game where I can play Cairne, Grom, and Antonidas?
Comment by
485091
on 2016-03-31T02:20:30-05:00
Here's my take on Rag:
He's like Lex Luthor teaming up with superman to fight Darkside.
He's still Lex Luthor. There are just more pressing matters at hand than fighting Supes.
That's how Rag would fit into this universe. he doesnt change, he just redirects his wrath and he will go back to crushing mortals later.
But the lightlord theme is more on the line of Piccolo or Vegeta in Dragonball Z.
They were introduced as the ultimate evil and ended up as friendly neighbour good guys. (more or less)
This works in DBZ because you have a story to make it believeable.
In Hearthstone you only have a Tweet.
Except why wouldn't Rag join the Old Gods?
Because
he didnt
. We were told ,in Warcraft lore, that it was basically a free for all between the Titans, the Elemental Lords and the old gods. No details though as far as I know.
Comment by
749141
on 2016-04-01T10:51:37-05:00
Ragnaros was featured in blizzard's March badness to go from that to being a servant of the light even if it's only in a silly card game is just to much for our suspension of disbalief to bare
(sic)
If it makes you feel better, pretend Ragnaros enslaved M'uru the naaru and is sapping his holy power. Evidently that "fits" in WoW lore.
Well that would be a hell of a trick since M'uru is dead and his essence purified the Sun Well
Wait, we're arguing chronology in a game where I can play Cairne, Grom, and Antonidas?
Well we are not talking about adding M'uru as a playable card
Comment by
749141
on 2016-04-01T10:52:29-05:00
Here's my take on Rag:
He's like Lex Luthor teaming up with superman to fight Darkside.
He's still Lex Luthor. There are just more pressing matters at hand than fighting Supes.
That's how Rag would fit into this universe. he doesnt change, he just redirects his wrath and he will go back to crushing mortals later.
But the lightlord theme is more on the line of Piccolo or Vegeta in Dragonball Z.
They were introduced as the ultimate evil and ended up as friendly neighbour good guys. (more or less)
This works in DBZ because you have a story to make it believeable.
In Hearthstone you only have a Tweet.
Except why wouldn't Rag join the Old Gods?
Because
he didnt
. We were told ,in Warcraft lore, that it was basically a free for all between the Titans, the Elemental Lords and the old gods. No details though as far as I know.
Ok let me rephrase why would he join the good guys?
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