Comments

Comment by 3864

These are very nice warlock gloves, for now there are only one pair of better dps-gloves: Dark Storm Gauntlets ( https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=21585 ).

Comment by 8161

Very nice for warlocks if you are far from seeing a Full nemesis Set bonus(20% reduced threat).

Comment by 8506

These gloves with the +20 shadow power is great for any warlocks dps set. I believe that these gloves are way better than the nemesis gloves just because of the damage they have on them. But if you are going just for the nemesis set bonus then these gloves have no value for you.

Comment by Maybe

I'm still using these at 70 for my shadow priest, 43 shadow damage is still very nice, and infact better than a lot of the available gloves pre-25 man raids for pure +damage, whilst lacking a little in stats.

Comment by Thottbot

Ebony = Black

"Black Flame"

Black flame would be shadow ;)

Comment by Thottbot

FWCogs is obviously a looser. he has nothing better to get out a maths textbook and study the game rather than play it, if a priest is shadow specced he is better at doing dmg u dumb wit. Yes i am a shadow priest btw.

Comment by Thottbot

Warlock gloves.

All you shadow priests how there going on about your dps. Understand the vast majortiy of your dps is coming from our debuffs, not your 15% shadow debuff...

So you boost my dps by 15%? Thanks, honestly, i'm thankful
However my CoS will boost your damage by 15-25%, and my Improved shadowbolt debuff will boost it a futher 20% (which during the raid, enough locks are critting that it almost always stays up), for a total of 35-45% additional damage.

Now lets get this straght, we both can wear it, so lets see who can do the msot damage from it.

We, being warlocks, will almost always have bane, increaseing our shadowbolts from 3 seconds to 2.5 seconds. Our primary PvE damage spell

You, have mindflay and mindblast.

We'll exclude your dot, and also point out that we have far more of them, and our dots can give us an instant shadow bolt, futher increasing our dps.

Now onto who can make the most damage.
You have mindblast, its not spamable, and is a 1.5 second cast time on a (with talents) 5.5 second cooldown

Shadow damage bonus is calucated at the bonus of cast time / 3.5 seconds

Thus anything equal to or longer then 3.5 seconds receives the full duration, anything less receives a relative reduction in bonus. This works off the base cast time

There is also the fact that since your mind-flay leaves a debuff on the target, its considered a binary spell, and thus receives only 1.5 seconds damage bonus

Your 3second long Mind-flay will receive an 18.4 damage bonus (Maths: 1.5/3.5*)
Your mindblast will receive 18.4 damage bonus

Assuming you mind blast and then flay twice, the total damage bonsu you would receive in a repeatable/spamable 7.5 second period is 55.2 Additional damage (this is the maximum bonus damage output)

If i'm not mistaken, Mindflay can not crit, meaning only mindblast can crit, and assuming it does, it will only crit for 27.6 bonus damage (spell crit = 150%)

Now lets see what warlocks can do in a 7.5 period
Shadowbolt with talents is a 2.5 second cast, however bonus damage is calucated by the base cast time

2.5 Second shadowbolt receives 36.8 bonus damage
A warlock will be able to fire 3 of these bolts off in a 7.5 second timeframe

Thankfully the burst damage cycle fits in perfectly with a 2.5 second shadow bolt, so comparasions will be easy

Bonus damage acheaible by a Priest in 7.5 seconds: 55.2 damage, 63.48 in shadow-form
Bonus damage acheaible by a Warlock in 7.5 seconds: 110.4, 121.44 with DM, 126.96 with succusbus DS

Shadow-Priests are only able to acheave 50-57.5% of what a warlock can acheave with the same gear

There are two final factors that need factoring. Firstly :: SM/DM/DS vs Shadowform
Priests can acheave a 15% bonus to their shadow-damage by shadow form, warlocks can only acheave 10% bonus via SM/DM. They can however with talents sacrafice a minion to acheave 15% shadow-bonus.

Now lets take Crit rates into account.
Warlocks can crit with ruin, for 200% normal spell damage. Priests can only crit fot 150% normal spell damage.
Warlocks also aquire a 5% crit bonus via talents leading to ruin
I'm going to assum a crit rate of 20% for warlocks, and 15% crit rate for priests

Warlocks bonus damage will be an additional 20% (20%*100% bonus damage)
Priests bonus damage will be an additional 7.5%(15%*50% bonus damage)

Continued...

Comment by Thottbot

Thus, if we modify the base damage by average crit rates, we get:

Bonus damage acheaible by a Priest in 7.5 seconds taking average crit bonus (from their single crit spell, mindblast) into account: 56.58 damage, 65.067 in shadow-form
Bonus damage acheaible by a Warlock in 7.5 seconds: 132.4, 145.7 with DM, 152.4 with succusbus DS

A shadow-formed priest vs a DS Warlock. all factors accounted for, the damage potental of a priest relative to a warlock is 42.7%

Two things i care not to look into is Vampiric Embrace, and the fact that in pvp, a warlock can use 3 shadow dots, as opposed to a priest who has one, and since dots get full shadow bonus in 1.5 seconds global cooldown, they gain a bonus damage lead of 4 seconds, or 49 additonal damage. But these facts are trivial compared to the big picture.

I do belive shadow-priests deserve a shot at it, but frankly, we make a lot more use from it then you. A priest who can't see these facts is blind to the truth of the matter.

Were the gloves built for warlocks? No
Should priests be allowed to roll on it? Yes
Should priests be allowed to roll equally on it? Not IMHO, simply because you can't make anywhere near as much as a warlock can from this item, and it effects all warlocks, were as this only effects shadow-priests

Also if anyone is still reading thsi comment, it'd be nice to know if you appreated it or disagree with it

I'd appreate it if people marked this, and part1 up if they valued the content, rather then letting them fade into obscurity

Comment by Thottbot

I have a mage as main and a shadow priest as alt. My shadow priest has +350 shadow damage gear, that's pretty good i think. I play shadow priest in MC and mage in BWL.

In terms of damage dealing shadow priest is the worst effective one compare to mage/lock in end game instance.

1) mana problem. If you load on all your + damage gear for DPS you will end up with less than 6k unbuffed mana. If you doing full DPS your mana pool will be empty in less 1 mins but a typical boss fight usually last 5 mins. Unlike mages have mana gem/evocation, warlock convert HP to MP, shadow priest don't have a effective way to regen mana.

2) + damage gear problem. shadow priest recieve the worst bounus from + damage gears. Mind blast is 1.5s cast spell, get 42% from the total bounus and it has 5.5 second cool down. Means you get only 42% bonus every 7 second. Mind Flayer is 3 second channeled spell, unfortunately it has a slowing effect blizz consider it's a binary spell. It only receive 42% bonus too. 42% bounus every 3 seconds, better than Mind blast but still very bad. SW:P get full + damage bounus but that's every 24s. While warlock/mage's main nuke spell frostbolt/shadowbolt receive 81% bounus very 2.5 second.

3) crit problem. SW:P and mind flayer can not crit. Mind Blast can crit but only deal 1.5 times damage. Warlock/mage all have talent doing 2 times damge when crit, not to mention warlock's insane crit with CoS. Crit make significant different in terms of DPS.

4) range problem. mind flayer is only 20 yards. In some enconters you need to stay max range, it'stoo risky to stay in 20 yards for casters. Mind blast has 30 yards range but it has cool down and very mana consuming. This will gimp your DPS too.

Not saying shadow priset is useless in end game instance(I am still playing shadow priest in regular MC runs),15% bounus to warlock's damage and doing considerable damage is a big contribution to raid.(Vampiric Embrace dosen't make much any difference in 40 man raid)

That's all in theroy tho. Practically shadow priest sure can out damage any other DPS class that's coz other DPSers are AFKers/slackers/noobs

And yes I will definately bid this glove for my shadow priest coz I hate locks they outbid my mage on so many things :(

Comment by Thottbot

You guys obviously are just focusing on points to just help one side
I try to offer concise infomation, the conclusions are left to the reader, but one fact remains uncontested over these gloves, is that they will enhance a warlocks dps more then they will a priests (by a margin of upto about 234%)

All you guys are stating are ONE spell from both sides.Its usally Shadowbolt vs Mindblast and Mindflay, simply because those are the dps spells cast in instances

Priests gain a huge bonus from +damage/healing since mind flay is their primary spell and it gains 100% of the damage
Unless i'm mistaken, the damage bonus is on a 3.5 second window. So mind flay only receives 3 seconds of the 3.5 second bonus or 86%

Point of interest however is that a warlock, given the same 3 second window, will have acheaved greater damage bonus because of talents that lower the cast time of the shadowbolt while retaining the shadow-bonus. Also mind-flay can not crit.

once you have reached max shadow weaving you can start throwing out mind blasts to get the full 15% damage boost
This effects not only your damage, but other warlocks damage as well, just like CoS effects your damage.

In the case of these gloves, CoS and Shadow-weaving are outside the arguement because both sides already use both damage enhancements. You can't justify these as priest gloves because of your debuff which warlocks can and always will use, this is also vice versa with warlocks and their CoS.

but in the end priests are inflicting layered damage at a constant every second, since mind flay is so strong and just ticks away life warlocks will fall behind in damage on end game bosses since they require lots of cast time.
1. Warlocks have erratic damage, but given long engagements, it can be looked at as an average damage. MC and BWL minions don't die in seconds, they take 30 seconds or longer to kill. Thats more then enough to dismiss constant damage, as sustained dps is what i'm talking about, and sustained dps is what my lock does.

2. Mindflay has a 3 second channel time, it is not instant
Shadowbolt has a 2.5 (talent enhanced) second cast time.
Shadowbolt does more damage and crits (with talents for 200% damage). Mindflay does not.

That entire point is nothing but babble. Futhermore, what can a shadow-priest do when they run out of mana. My warlock just life-taps his mana back and goes back into action. Will you wand? I'm more of the opinion that warlocks will surpass shadow-priests in damage, as we can sustain ours indefenility, where as a priest cannot

Regardless this item is great for both classesAbsoutly Correct.

but I still think warlocks should be more focused on their set bonuses than just to have this piece and substitute it later when they get their set pieces.At least in my case, that would be my endgame pve gear. Nothing would replace it. But thats just me. Most other locks arn't as obsessive over damage-gear as i am

Comment by Thottbot

...a job? Are you people (the whiners) so engrossed in this video game that you consider it a vocational choice? Is THAT your reason for attempting to deny equipment to others?

Yes, I'm a shadow priest. The only reason I don't have these gloves yet is because I didn't have the DKP when they dropped, or wasn't at the raid. Yes, my guild has spanked Nefarian like the proverbial red-headed stepchild. Yes, I was there for the majority of those kills, and I was a contributor to their success.

Funny thing is, the warlocks in my guild don't load themselves with damage gear like this. Not in instances, at least. Know why?

THEY DRAW AGGRO AND DIE. KER-FRICKIN'-SPLAT. Even a MD 'lock, with imp, gets him/herself crunched with gear like this. It simply draws too much threat. Therefore, they roll on items of this sort for PvP/solo play. Priests of -any- sort need all the stamina they can get in PvP, and +damage is desperately sought-after.

The only real reason to deny a particular class an upgrade of this sort is to boost your own ego. Well uh, your ego can cram it. I'll be melting faces, enjoying the -game-, while you rage against others who'd just like to do the same.

Have fun, and stop trying to destroy the fun of others. None of us are paying $15 a month to do a job. :/

Comment by Thottbot

I play in a guild with FRIENDS, I'm sure that's hard to understand, but let me explain. That means if Ebony Flame Gloves drop then regardless of whether or not I'm a Shadow Priest (which I am) or a Warlock, as long as I have the dkp, I'll be allowed to bid. Happened with Sash of Whispered Secrets and with Ring of Spell Power. The Warlocks let me bid, and congratulated me when I won too. I would do likewise.

Comment by Thottbot

I play a Warlock and I would have no problems having a Shadow Priest bid DKP on these gloves. Having a Shadow Priest in the raid gives us Warlock's 15% extra damage, not to mention the fact that the Priest themselves can do comparable damage to us with endgame gear - and even better threat reduction. It seems that the sole reason people feel Priests should be excluded from bidding is greed. It is amusing to see people throw phrases around like 'a Priest's role' etc, when clearly not realizing the huge benefit a Shadow Priest gives to us Warlocks.

Comment by Thottbot

As a warlock, I love shadow priests. Their shadow weaving is my best friend, EVER. And I'm sure they love our curse of shadow. If you have a shadow priest that's been raiding long enough to get these gloves, there's no reason on EARTH they should not be allowed to bid over a lock. Assuming they have the highest DKP, they should get the gloves. It's simple, really.

Oh hey, I have a question about an earlier post from a lock. How do you get 3k crits all the time when your base line shadow bolts are 900?

Comment by Thottbot

To be honest, WTF cares who gets priority in this and who doesn't...

In a perfectly set up raid-group this would go to the shadow-damage casters, without giving a damn if it is a priest or a warlock.
If it's a DKP-System, may the one with the most points get it.
If you are playing in a raid with friends, it's all about talking about drops with each other...

So generally in the end, all the 'best item' discussions are pure bull&*!@, and nothing more.

These are nice gloves for every "Shadow Damage Caster"

'nuff said

Comment by Thottbot

in response to your q "how do you get 3k crits all the time when your base line SB is 900?"

Im guessing that hes exaggerating a little, and he gets them occasionally only, but its quite possible he gets them on a regular basis.

first crit-1800, 2nd crit (with shadow vulnerability) circa. 2200. add CoS and priest debuff your getting up there easily, esp if hes using gear like sageblade that lowers target resistances.

lastly, entirely possible that SB could be landing for base of over 900, i know that raid buffed/potted my lock base hits around 1k, and thats running only 2 epics so far, just with gear optimised to +dmg. Add the debuffs, slap on a flask of power, get you're pumping out the crazy 4K plus crits locks are so famous for :P

Comment by Thottbot

First off, I'm specced Disc/Holy. So you know I'm not a shadow priest.

Priests will roll on this. Personally, I think that at least the first pair of these should go to a lock. They'd be great for a priest sure but get them later. If we're needed for healing we have that option and can always get another pair of healing gloves to help out our heals.

Priests in the expansion will be able to regen mana more effeciently. So getting damage gear now will be necessary for the future, too. If you toss the shadow priest in a group of locks or other casters later on. He'll be able to regen your mana too. The more damage he deals, the more mana you shall get. Priests will also get a "pet" so to speak which will allow the priest to gain mana for each attack the fiend lays down. While not great, however coupled with the priests ability to regen mana in the first place (that's pretty darn good) and the 41 point talent the shadow priest has available, all this math will mean nothing.

If there's already a priest in shadowform in your BWL raid. Your guild has no problems with it and most likely enjoys having him/her around in the first place. Let bygones be bygones and the priest to have a shot at these as well as any warlock.

Priests are already bidding against druids and paladins for healing gear. Why should locks be the only class to have a spell type of their own? They shoudln't and they don't. Happy raiding!

Comment by Thottbot

But what are the blue chest/robes the undead priest is wearing in the picture above?

Comment by Thottbot

*!@#$%^ wEapON!11!

boom boom autoshot pewpew....

really guys this post makes just as much sense as the arguement. i have lost "ints" on crystal web robes 2 times due to priest, what can i say they had cap dkp. but you dont see me saying anything. come on guys think about it. they will drop again, deal

Comment by Thottbot

Just got these for my priest last night. :)
Very nice shadowpriest/warlock gloves if you ask me, don't really see why warlock's should get priority over priests for this, since +damage gear for priests is a lot harder to find then + damage gear for warlocks. And yes, warlocks do more damage, but a good raid group has both shadowpriests and warlocks. That's WoW, you need all classes to be succesfull, so yeah BOTH PRIEST AND WARLOCK GEAR. End of..

Comment by Thottbot

70 shadow priest here... just fyi, i'm 5-10 manning bwl until i get these, and my rogue friend gets the trinket off of ebonroc... i currently have jadenfire gloves, https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=27889/jaedenfire-gloves-of-annihilation .. this little boost in shadow damage pays MASSIVE dividends in not just damage, but health and mana regen for their whole party, in raid/heroic/etc. btw, i have access to t4 gloves if i want, they arent as good, imo... not even with the garbage set bonuses.. gl and have fun!

- HL

Comment by Allakhazam

...a frost version of these gloves. =( This is a Shadow Priest and SM/Ruin Warlock's wet dream.

Comment by Allakhazam

warlock porn

Comment by Allakhazam

yeah im going aswell for full +shadow dmg instead of all like 15 dmg 1 crit on nemesis

Comment by Allakhazam

Dropped from Ebonroc. Best gloves for a warlock going for +shadow/dmg.

Comment by Allakhazam

150 dps drain life here i come :)

Comment by Allakhazam

Equally good for both warlock and priest, I don't see how it could be better for one over the other. If you are a holy /disc priest, You should be passing. Same for if you are a Destro lock, and there is a shadow priest around. Equally good for both classes no arguing.

Comment by Allakhazam

Man there's so much warlock dps *!@# in BWL. Makes me scared cause the warlocks in my guild always pull aggro first.

Comment by Allakhazam

win win win.. got them today :D woha

Comment by Allakhazam

nothing to see here.

Edited, Wed Sep 14 20:43:53 2005

Comment by Allakhazam

yes these are good for shadow priests but not meny priests that do bwl are shadow

Comment by Allakhazam

These and a 20+ shadowdamage enchant would be sweet as candy for my warlock!

Comment by Allakhazam

right now i got 520 magic/shadow dmg with talisman...that would make me extremely happy!

Comment by Allakhazam

http://i1.tinypic.com/nwy1r5.jpg

Comment by Allakhazam

got em yesterday
enchanted +20 shadow-dmg
feeling imba now ;)

Comment by Allakhazam

Awesome raiding/affliction warlock gloves. :D

A possible +63 shadow damage from a glove slot.

Comment by Allakhazam

Pic:
http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/2288/ebonyflame8ax.jpg

After I got these, my Nemesis became riding gloves.

Edited, Sat Dec 31 14:01:41 2005

Comment by Allakhazam

Got these yesterday since the other locks were horny for nemesis, lucky me. These are better :)

Comment by Allakhazam

I must have these for my shadow priest! For pure damage, I don't think there's anything better to be found.

Comment by Allakhazam

I would love a priest after bidding on this :/

Comment by Allakhazam

Sorry.. double post. Crappy system :)

Edited, Fri Aug 26 08:54:29 2005

Comment by Allakhazam

Nothing in the game compares to these gloves. They're really just amazing. Got them for my warlock just a bit ago, second person on the server to get them :)

Comment by Allakhazam

got em yesterday, nice priest gloves :)

Comment by Allakhazam

These babies dropped right onto my hands just a few minutes ago. They are indeed every dmg-warlocks wet dream :)

Comment by Allakhazam

shadow priest

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Ebony Flame Gloves

	Phase 1

Item Level 75
Binds when picked up

Hands	Cloth

82 Armor
+17 Stamina
+12 Intellect
Durability 35 / 35

Requires Level 60
Equip: Increases damage done by Shadow spells and effects by up to 43.

Sell Price: 1 64 73

This item is part of the following transmog set: Darkmist Regalia (Recolor)

Ebony Flame GlovesEbonrocBlackwing Lair

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