Comments

Comment by Thottbot

i might have worn these, but they are grotesque. lopsided and a nice shade of puke green

Comment by Thottbot

http://img80.echo.cx/img80/7365/bileetched7by.gif

Comment by Thottbot

Combat oriented is too general. Depending on your build and what your role will be. If you are gonna be tank, this is gonna be good for paladins because of the +defense and int. However, for pvp, this is not the best item for those with reckoning. You should actually avoid defense for reckoning to increase your chance to gain charges.

but in any case, I say you should roll for it. You have equal chance on this items with warriors.

Comment by Thottbot

Who gives if its grotesque? their nice shoulders. where them pussy

Comment by Thottbot

I'm definitely going to get these, though, they could use a little more stam and less strength.

Comment by Thottbot

As a prot pally, I have successfully tanked instance bosses. Not raid bosses mind you. But my biggest trophy is Immol'thar. I tanked the hell out of him.

Comment by Thottbot

in what part is immol thar

Comment by Thottbot

to believe that this discussion even takes place bothers me. In most cases that + to defence belongs to the warrior. ok so it has 6 intel on it, do i give a %^&*? im taking these for tanking. You guys seriously need to chill the ^&*! out. figure out what you want to do with your pally and shape it around what other guilds want. face it, if you arnt speced and trained in the arts of team work and assistance play style for high end instances, you arnt doing them.
These are 6 to intel, i know a lot of pallies in my guild that have taken green shoulders with either + to healing or intel over these. 6 intel is nothing to lose your $%^& over. I have trouble even speaking on these forums because i know that someone is going to post beneath me saying im a moron and hes going to tell me to lrn2play. you guys go ahead and gimp yourself.
to the pallies who roll on this, most will inspect you and laugh. just like a warrior with a lava dredger will get flamed. you want shoulders? nab some light forge and leave the tanking to the class that actually tanks.

Comment by Thottbot

I don't actually like being the main tank, because I don't have the same skill set a warrior has to REtake aggro...as WELL as they do. Which means everything will take longer. If I have to, I can tank in 5 man outside of Strath. I prefer to be the UNkillable savior of the group rather then tank (repair bill anyone?.) If I had to hold aggro (which means mages and warlocks standing around for the first half of a fight,) while I off-heal, rebuff as needed, switch weapons depending on what I am fighting AND watch out for adds, etc. then I can not beas good a Main Tank.
What I find I am is the best damn off-tank out there, and damn good replacement tank when the main tank is underhealed. I can also WAY over heal to keep the MT alive since if I take aggro, warrior need not worry about me and healer need not worry about me...it's great! I just have to know I don't get to really brag or show-off until the sh** hits the fan. Everyone really appreciates me and starts taking orders from me quite easily after a Divine Intervention, or when I've taken over as MT once down to 2 or 3 party members after a bad pull, and then rezzing everyone back. If the main healer goes down, I can cover, if the main tank goes down, I can fake it.
THAT's the role I usually have to gear up for. And that's not easy. So something like this armor piece very much helps with that. Now I have not been on 40 man endgame raids, but so what? That's not what the whole game is about for most folks. I've been playing for a year, and with my other toons I've started I still haven't seen all the non-instanced content there is out there. Maybe I'm not addicted enough (my gf would argue otherwise.)

Comment by Thottbot

Paladins can't tank nearly as well as a warrior.

Warrior can generate 17% more aggro, assuming equal grounds with paladin, with neither using skills apart from paladin in defensive stance. Add in sunder armor, revenge, etc. and it's no competition.

Also, taunt is not a crutch skill. Let's say a mage inflicts 1000 points of damage on a mob, and takes the mob's aggro. The paladin will need to deal 1300 points of damage before the monster will change aggro to paladin, and this is assuming that the mage doesn't inflict any more damage until then. The warrior will only have to inflict 770 damage, and hit taunt. (Or immediately taunt, and inflict 770 damage.) Add in the fact that the warrior doesn't even need to do 770 damage, because of the extra 17% aggro efficiency in protection stance, and even more efficiency if protection spec'd. (It takes 130% aggro to switch targets, FYI.)

Is warrior vs. paladin tanking even worth comparing anymore? Paladins can take damage similar to a warrior, but when you're tanking, what really matters is taking that damage for the clothies. These are warrior shoulders.

Comment by Thottbot

First of all, the biggest reason is that raids are typically always short on healer, so the healing side of the paladin is much appreciated than the tank side. (Warriors is a class with the biggest number in WOW. You really want have trouble finding tanks.)

Another reason is the fact paladin needs mana to hold aggro, which can run out pretty early at MC level fights while rage is unlimited over the time. That is why rage users such as warrior or druid can hold better aggro over the time.

That being said, paladins are good tanks and viable off tank even in MC. The intel on this shoulder says it is good for both paladin and warrior.

Comment by Thottbot

im a pally my spec is usally 31/20/0 or 31/0/20
i always have holy shock iv spent around 450-500g in respecs

anyway reguarldess of my spec i am able to tank better than a lot of thoes arms fury wars in PUGS (pug= pick up group) you know when you get that war decked out in greens that does not know what def stance is

funny thing is blizzard added a pally tank set check out the deathbone in 1.10
(def sta and mana regen lol)

anyway a pally will tank like a pro till they lose aggro and have to spam heal spam judges holy shock consecration non stop and more than likly use blessing of protection on the one who pulled aggro
(exorcism can get some pretty ncie aggro in Undead instances makes tanking ud strat/baron cake)

yes iv off tanked garr adds in mc when the warlocks/wars are in short supply but truth be told druids are better off tanking in bear they dont have to waste mana

what i go for in my gear is + healing mana over 5 sta and int ( i also have dps gear for solo)
add imp wisdom rank 6 to that (39-40 mana over 5)

im around +440 healing and 104 mana over 5 with bless its not hard to get more than that if you raid if your willing to sacrafice ac and yes i admid i use wild growth sapulders :) but i could pass up +62 healing

my point is if you want to shine as a pally dont think about tanking go heal bot i can run mc/bwl/aq and not need even 1 water and i can spam my flash of light with (some holy lights when needed) non stop and its a great feeling when someone posts that healing done and a pally is on the top3 with priests that spawm Poh for dps partys

--sum it up
dont worrie about tanking become a healdin work on healing/mana regen gear and any raiding guild will love you

... or go Blue rage bar dps pally and pvp and get some GM stuff :)

Comment by Thottbot

Is it impossible that some pieces of equipment could be effectively used by two different classes? If these shoulders were intended for a single class, they would have stats that were only good for a single class. However, they have stats that are useable by both paladins and warriors. Moreover, since paladins and warriors are both versatile classes capable of filling more than a single role, shouldn't the player who is rolling be the one to decide if these shoulders help him play the game in the way that is most fun for him (or her, I suppose)?

Personally, as a paladin I would prefer different shoulders from these because the intelligence bonus is too low for me, but I also prefer to heal rather than tank.
However, I can understand why a protection paladin would like to use these shoulders. He gets a bit of bonus to his mana, and a big bonus to his defense.

Besides, what good is it complaining about someone else rolling on equipment that you want to use, but they also would like to use? After all, it is just a game. So take a few deep breaths and don't lose your head over a few lines of code.

Comment by Thottbot

First of all I must agree on someone that most warriors are noobs, and when in PuG I would rather have a known paladin, than an unknown warrior in my group to tank. The problem is that both paladins and warriors are mostly played by clueless retards... As you can see from the comments above mine, warriors love to spam, and use CAPS alot...

Second of all, these shoulders are pretty obvious paladin. All the stats can be used by paladins. Of course some stats can also be used by warriors, but it is pretty obvious these shoulders are not meant for warriors.

These shoulders are with the lightforge shoulders the only blue paladin shoulders. Warriors should pick a set of shoulders out of their way bigger list of possibilities, which have much better stats for them.

Comment by Thottbot

I got me a level 60 epic'd warrior. I've been tanking for 40 levels, and been more or less proficient at it. My biggest trophy would be Chromaggus, as I'm not my guilds MT, and haven't been "allowed" to tank Nef yet.

I also have a 59 tankadin, and I must say, with proper gear, there are occasions when palydans are better tanks than warriors.

I've recently been running alot of Scholomance/Stratholme, and it seems to me the recipe for tanking as a paladin is uncomplicated compared to that of a warrior. How to aggro 10+ mobs enough that they don't kill ur healer when they get the chance:

Warrior: Dem. shout, piercing howl, cleave and sunder-tabbing. It's doable vs 10 targets, but not exactly practical.

Palydan: Pop Holyshield, concecrate and holy wrath with a thorium spiked crest of retribution, retribution aura, thorns and blessing of sanctuary. I'd love to see the healer that could outaggro that. Also spam Judgement of Righteousness and Exorsism on the main target ofc.

So ye, usually a warrior can tank better, but when it comes to UD, and especially large groups of them. Leave it to the palydan.

Comment by Thottbot

I have a pally with over 9000 armor and 370+ def he has no epix i dont care where he is he can tank just takes him some time to get aggro improved RF is the key to getting the attention of the mob and with my "regular group" an epicd out mage tries to get the group killed for "fun" he hasnt done it yet live side strat UD strat or ubrs i do want to get a spell that is close to a sunder but for now ill keep going the way i am going and the warriors will stay below me on the damage taken charts and cry about it ..... in turn tonight i will go to DM and get these shoulders to replace my LF spaulders and push my defense up that much more thank you warriors for the competition hope to see you round on one of my raids =)

Comment by Thottbot

THESE SHOULDERS ARE FOR HUNTERS ONLY..OMFG NOOBS.

We need plate armor cause we tank the mobs in the instances..noobs...gosh.

Learn2play KTHXBAI

Comment by Thottbot

bad ones.

Warrior/Tanks (that is a warrior with protect spec - at least 21+ points, but idealily 30+ points) can mitigate DMG way better than any Pali. Full shield spec means a good warr can keep his shield block up (+75% block for 2 attacks) 100% of the time, which is key in raiding BOSS fights. Warrs also generate rage from blocking attacks, which helps the aggro and keep aggro - see things thing really works :)

Warrs have the taunts and when the aggro gen (sunder, revenge, heroic strick, shield slam) are use well this mean its very difficult to pull aggro - though many DPS classes can pull and will pull aggro.

9000 armor may give you about 65% melee DMG reduction, but warrs have a trick called defe stance that gives them a +10% DMG recduction bonus. They can also build for extra threat in this stance (since we do lose 10% DMG generation in this stance) and we can even spec for additional DMG with 1H weapons (similar to Pali's there ... though I have not checked the tree in some time).

370 def is min def for MT in MC (and is fairly low for non fire fights). I wonder how your mana is? ... or maybe your damage sucks, cause really- WoW shows you, you can not have it all ... yes even Hunts can not have it all.

So, this piece of armor - Bile-etched Spaulders is a Pali piece 1st and warrior 2nd. If the pali no wants, warrior should get... since INT does nothing for a warr and can be more effectively used by a pali. Also Deathbone is the same now (after 1.10 patch). I would not roll over a pali who wanted either, though the DB Chest is very, very nice - even for a warr starting out in MC.

Pali's are also great for pulling. Their bubbles can allow them to survive some crazy stuff, but for long tanking jobs (bosses) they typically wont cut it - and if they do - you gotta wonder why he/she is not leveling a Warr toon to 60 :P

Pali does: backup healing, buffing, pulling (bubble pulls), decursing (kinda like buffing), off tanking, saving the raid ass (DI), and in a pinch they can tank and zerg ...

Warr does: tank/aggro control, survives (with the help of some heals - so he can hold aggros!) and even some DPS for those DW/2H/DPS/Crit warrs...

And what's up with Pali's wanting to be primary on spell crit items? Its not like they can not have them, but other classes rely on those spell crits more.

Comment by Thottbot

Ill start off with a disclaimer by saying my pally is only lvl 30 so i dont know much about high end pally gear or mana levels/ mana usage.
my main is a 60 priest but i also have a 55 warrior so i know a bit about tanking and a lot about healing and raiding.

first off - not everyone raids the big end-game instances.
since 1.10 when the late-game instances all took entry limit reductions people have fewer options for party make up, and more people are having to fill more roles in a dungeon now. this means pallys will have to start tanking more than they used to, so you shouldnt be too quick to discount them.

having said that, pallys are an auxilliary class, like druids and shaman. almost every class in WoW can be built to fill completely different roles, but most have a speciality. auxilliary classes are classes that can fill more than one of those roles at the same time, but dont normally outperform a pure specialist in any role (given equal degrees of experience, gear and build spec). what i mean is that a properly built and geared def. warrior *is* better at pure tanking than any paladin. a properly geared holy/disc priest is a better main healer than any paladin. but if the MT goes down, it wont be the priest you're asking to save you from the dragon.

now, as a warrior I'm looking at the +str and +def and thinking it's a nice shoulder piece. It looks like a nice pally piece too, but here's where i dont know much about what pallys need to do their various jobs. +6 int (for a priest, at least) equates to +60 mana.... or sweet f%$# all. its about 1/4 of a flash heal - once. but like i said, i dont know how much mana a healadin needs. it looks more like a combat paladin piece to me.
the pallys i think would want this are the off-tank or small raid main tank pallys and the solo pallys (although they probably want a bit more offense than defence)

the main thing is that more than one class/build might want this and people shouldn't be critisising others if they do.
and really... the people some of you are insulting about it probably arent even on the same server as you, so you'll never have to worry about them rolling against you for it anyway

Comment by Thottbot

These shoulders are good for either pala or warrior, 2 people in my guild have these, a pala AND a warrior. allong with the deathbone set, you can get some nice tankaidin gear for palas or warriors pre-raid.

last night i did a scholo run, me (6o pala reckoning spec but not tankadin. 3 pice deathbone and +defence gloves still needing these shoulders) a holy pala (some lawbringer geared)healing, a mage tier 1 and 2 rogues 1 PvP specced dagger rogue and other god mode (blade flurry, addreniline rush) specced and we managed to clear it quite easy.
I've heard people say they won;t do scholo cos it's 5 man now, b00wns =P

Comment by Thottbot

After many runs I got these. Very nice for tanking for a paladin or a warrior.

Comment by Thottbot

Tankadin:aoe tank(hyjal trash, hydross spawns etc)
Offtank
Warrior: 1 Target tank, he can't keep aggro as much as a paladin can in aoe...
I hope all read this and won't belive a paladin is only a healing bot...Blizzard realised that in TBC and gave some plate with spell dmg

Comment by Thottbot

Currently, I'm playing a tankadin, and I have to say these look like nice shoulders.
Sure, the +Int isn't all that high. Considering the fact that, with leveling up to 70, most of the raids are ignored almost entirely these days, meaning the +def isn't as nice as it once was. Sure, it's still good for reducing crit and crush chances, but the def bonus just isn't big enough to make a major difference at this point. That, and a pally needs to be able to cast almost non-stop to tank right, which requires alot more mana than this gives (btw, to the poster above who said 6 int gives 60 mana, you're thinking stam. 6 stam gives 60 health. 6 int gives 90 mana).
Still, if you're looking for solid defense gear, this is a pretty fine looking piece. It won't last you long into outlands, but it is still something you can prize for a little while.

Now, about the whole Pally/Warr tanking arguement that has been going on on this thread. First of all, most of the points are entirely moot now that TBC is out. Righteous Fury gives a 6% damage reduction, without gimping our damage output. We have Righteous Defender, which is far superior to Taunt in every way. It's actually suggested on alot of the higher TBC raid content to allow a pally to MT the boss (Illidan, for example), due to the fact that Illidan can shred Shield Block far faster than a warrior can pop it up again, while a Pallies Holy Shield holds for significantly longer. In AoE situations, nothing beats a paladin tank. A paladin can stand in the middle of the dragon portion of Sunken Temple, surrounded by a dozen targets, and never loose aggro, without even having to really try. A warrior with a dozen targets is about to go out of his mind with all the tab-sunders he's about to dish out. Finally, considering Alliance Pallies now have their own version of Sunder (Seal of Vengeance), there is generally not much difference between a Paladin and a Warrior tank, except implimentation, and reliance on CC.

Comment by Allakhazam

I got the Yesterday in Dire Maul. Drops from the named in the Prison. Int'hel something. Also dropped a Trinket with a 2% chance to dodge and attack.

Comment by Allakhazam

I'll get flak for this, but these would be pretty good Tankadin shoulders. Besides, do Warrs have any use for Intellect other than faster skilling of weapons? If so, I'll stand corrected ;) If not, definently Tankadin gear first :)

Comment by Allakhazam

damn i hate thatga noob say that this is warrior-fit

how stypid can u be can only be used good by a pala

Edited, Sat Jun 24 14:54:06 2006

Comment by Allakhazam

Wow, dude what is with warriors against paladins, we are the only 2 plate wearing classes so gear is gear, it can benefit paladins and warriors, imean practically most of the good armor is branded warrior gear, so people like me who like to tank/heal cant grab items with str stam because they are labeled warrior, just like weapons, and the truth is its no definite warr/pall weapon unless it says class only, and until you hit 60 and do alot of raiding gear is gear, so im sick of hearing warriors crying because a paladin rolls need and you lose.

Comment by Allakhazam

both classes should wear this. altough it's more a paladin item becaus of the +int but still the STR+STA + Def. is nice for warriors.

Comment by Allakhazam

I won this on my tauren. I don't see any Paladins (not till expac) so I rolled away, and am using them.

Comment by Allakhazam

These spaulders are clearly warrior-fit. The 6 intellect doesn't bother me really, the other stats are good enough for a warrior, and they are easier to get than any other of these defence-giving spaulders.

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Bile-etched Spaulders

	Phase 1

Item Level 62
Binds when picked up

Shoulder	Plate

485 Armor
+17 Strength
+6 Stamina
+6 Intellect
Durability 80 / 80

Requires Level 57
Equip: Increases defense rating by 10.

Sell Price: 2 62 9

Bile-etched Spaulders

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