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Wraith Spear...did I overreact?
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Post by
Sokur
I roll with dual
Omen of Ruin
(got them both in one Naxx 10 run) with +50 AP on each. I was in a Naxx 10 guild run, the guild hosting had 8 people but had to pug two dps, myself as MM and an SV Hunter.
Wraith Spear
drops off Maexxna. Myself and the other hunter roll on it of course, I beat his roll but then their guilds Ret Pally rolls on it and beats me. She already has
Titansteel Destroyer
with +85 AP on it. Having a raiding Ret Pally i asked why she would roll on it, it was not itemized for her and she said because maxdps.com has it higher ranked for Ret. She wins the roll, I left the pug along with the other hunter. Did *we* overreact or were we justified in our argument?
Edited for grammar.
Post by
249472
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Sokur
I'll admit that leaving the pug and robbing myself of possible gear & emblems was a stupid thing to do. I should have clarified.
Was I incorrect in feeling that Wraith should have gone to one the hunters based on stats and the fact that it was not itemized for the pally, not to mention it was a sidegrade?
Post by
155124
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Sokur
Really, you think that
Staff of the Plague Beast
is better than Wratih? You guys are focusing on the wrong part of the post. I already said leaving wasn't the issue, the issue is *Do you think the Ret Pally should have gotten it?* As I said before, if I was raiding with my pally and the polearm dropped and any hunter or feral druid rolled on it I would not even think of rolling against them.
Post by
155124
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Sokur
No, lol, I raid as MM but farm as BM. I would love to have
Black Ice
instead but I can't make it to any of my guilds raids. I am on a West Coast server with mostly East Coast players so I end up pugging everything, so yes, I do pug for gear and emblems. That's also another reason why I haven't gotten into Ulduar yet, trying to gear up in PUG 25 mans sucks.
Post by
Pezwar
It's a nice weapon for a Ret Pally. Not 100% itemized for them, but IMO it's a bigger upgrade for him going from a Destroyer than you going from 2 Omens. So yeah. I would have let him have it. And no matter what server you're on, there's bound to be a guild that raids at times where you can raid as well, so it's most definitely possible to not have to pug things.
Bottom line, he won it fair and square, and if I was Raid Leader or Loot Master, I wouldn't have cared one bit, especially since he'd put it to better use than us Hunters can. And please, don't attempt to dispute that.
Post by
seizmik
wraith spear has a 3.7 speed, which is one of the slowest you can find, therefore many melee dps will roll on that weapon.
Post by
Zakkhar
It's a nice weapon for a Ret Pally. Not 100% itemized for them, but IMO it's a bigger upgrade for him going from a Destroyer than you going from 2 Omens. So yeah. I would have let him have it. And no matter what server you're on, there's bound to be a guild that raids at times where you can raid as well, so it's most definitely possible to not have to pug things.
Bigger upgrade? No not really.
http://www.wowhead.com/?compare=39221;41257
Pallies get 15% more STR from any str item so Titansteel Destroyer gives him: 105*1.15=120.75 str which is 241 AP, Spear has only 126 AP.
Destroyer gives 54 hit, which unless he is already hit overcapped from other items accounts for 3.375 sockets used to gem hit.
From Spear he gets 45 Haste (i believe pallies get more since one of latest patch and it boosts their seal of blood damage and white damage) and 68 raw crit + 90 agi worth of crit. For pally crit scales not so great, it boosts pretty much only white hits + seal of blood damage, because all other skills have build in crit coeficients from talents. Really huge crit cooefiecinets.
Dps is same. Spear is slightly slower which boosts Crusaders Strike damage.
So Destroyer gives 125 more AP and 3.375 sockets worth of hit, while from Spear he gets some swing damage boost and crusader strike boost. Og and he gets a crit rating that actually shows in the char stats, wow. Sidegrade i would say.
As for Hunter.
2 Omens give 58 agi, spear 90
2 Omens give 64 stamina, spear - 79
2 Omens give 154 ap, spear 126
Omens give zero haste and zero raw crit. Everything is better in spear apart from 28 ap difference for omens.
BUT. All these calculations are fail due to the fact it was a PUG and the apaladin Won the roll. He can roll for whatever he wants as long as its for his main spec. Maybe it was more of a sidegrade than upgrade for him but its not your right to judge this because it was a pug.
wraith spear has a 3.7 speed, which is one of the slowest you can find, therefore many melee dps will roll on that weapon.
Most melee dps are dumb than if thats only why they roll. You can roll on it because its poleaxe and you prefer it to mace as arms warr. But only thing you'll be boosting with its being slower is your Slam damage, all other instants do
normalised
weapon damage. For Fury Whirlwind does normalised weapon damage as well.
DK maybe... if so.. they wont be normalised for ages prolly.
Post by
Sokur
Technically it was a guild run with two pug dps in it. Neither pug dps won but the pally that was in the guild got it. Maybe im just reading into it too much.
Post by
Zakkhar
You are. Pally won the roll - pally got it. Simple as it is.
Post by
291962
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
PugnaciousOne
It's not a pally weapon. The destroyer is better unless the pally was fully hit-capped without the destroyer and had all that +str from their other gear, which in naxx 10 gear, just dosn't happen.
Post by
Sokur
Well then, since the consensus is that I am indeed wrong, I will leave it at that. Thank you. I do like the fact that Zakkhar actually put the numbers to the test. I actually hope I raid with the Pally again and out dps them again while they are using Wraith, that will give me some satisfaction.
Post by
108903
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
90985
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
cms2k
I roll with dual
Omen of Ruin
(got them both in one Naxx 10 run) with +50 AP on each. I was in a Naxx 10 guild run, the guild hosting had 8 people but had to pug two dps, myself as MM and an SV Hunter.
Wraith Spear
drops off Maexxna. Myself and the other hunter roll on it of course, I beat his roll but then their guilds Ret Pally rolls on it and beats me. She already has
Titansteel Destroyer
with +85 AP on it. Having a raiding Ret Pally i asked why she would roll on it, it was not itemized for her and she said because maxdps.com has it higher ranked for Ret. She wins the roll, I left the pug along with the other hunter. Did *we* overreact or were we justified in our argument?
Edited for grammar.
Her biggest problems is relying on maxdps to be useful for hunters. If you look at their website, other than upgrading weapon levels from time to time, the only thing they describe is Beast Mastery spec. So, of course the Wraith Spear will show better for a Ret Pally since they have yet to properly address two better dps specs for hunters. There are people that blindly follow a variety of "dps" related websites who's information is woefully out of date.
Personally, I still would have stayed. I'm not about to let someone with a lack of understanding of their class, spec, gear and drops to get in the way of me acquiring upgrades. I'll just run it again next week anyway.
Post by
225126
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
355869
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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