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Why Your Religion?
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Post by
MyTie
So what you suggest is to stop looking for answers?
Well, it's a POV, a POV I hope I never adapt
I don't believe that, that is what's being suggested. From my understanding, what's being said is that there is no answer. How can you seek answers for something which has none?
There are answers. Perhaps, they cannot be found out though. I'd also like to suggest that they may not matter at all. Can God make a triangle into a square? Can he change Coke to Pepsi? Perhaps we should focus more on what the meaning of 'love your neighbor'.
Post by
MyTie
The thing is though God
is
restrained by logic. He created the laws of the universe (so most think). Thus he can't break them, or he wouldn't be God anymore.
I don't understand where this sort of stuff comes from. Is it made up off the cuff? Is there any scientific data to support? Is there any Biblical basis or other religous basis for it? I think people need to slow down before jumping to conclusions.
Post by
260787
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Post by
150529
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Post by
452006
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Post by
Monday
The thing is though God
is
restrained by logic. He created the laws of the universe (so most think). Thus he can't break them, or he wouldn't be God anymore.
I don't understand where this sort of stuff comes from. Is it made up off the cuff? Is there any scientific data to support? Is there any Biblical basis or other religous basis for it? I think people need to slow down before jumping to conclusions.
1. Scientific data to support something like this?
2. IIRC it is from a revelation (can't find link, sorry)
3. He created the heaven and the earth... thus he created the laws that govern them correct? And one of his commandments is to not break the law.
Post by
Monday
I think that god is a load of crap, i mean why would one being be incharge of it all, How do people know that god exists and an afterlife exists! There is no way of telling, i think that religions are stupid as it is, just a bunch of people who are to stupid to see the logical way and just make up their own crap to cover for it.
Is that sort of the thing you wanted to hear fuden, because its all true.
1. Spell my name right.
2. I wanted to hear your reasons, I didn't want you to rub it in my face.
3. That was immature.
4. It's not true (see I can argue like that too).
Post by
Adamsm
I think that god is a load of crap, i mean why would one being be incharge of it all, How do people know that god exists and an afterlife exists! There is no way of telling, i think that religions are stupid as it is, just a bunch of people who are to stupid to see the logical way and just make up their own crap to cover for it.
Is that sort of the thing you wanted to hear fuden, because its all true.
It's called belief, and it's one of the strongest emotions a human can have.
Post by
150529
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150529
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Post by
Orranis
Let's make something clear,yes? An all powerful being is a being capable of doing, in every way,
EVERYTHING
.
God CAN do a person with free will but without free will according to christians regardless if he wishes so.
No, because you're speaking gibberish. What you're saying has no meaning. In order to have
free will
, you need
free will
.
this is the logical part, yes. But god is all powerful, he isn't restrained by logic. The same way he is 3 but 1 he can make people with free will but without free will.
The thing is though God
is
restrained by logic. He created the laws of the universe (so most think). Thus he can't break them, or he wouldn't be God anymore.
What kind of logic is that? I make sure my sister only has her alloted forty five minutes of television, yet I can do the same for hours. Are you seriously going to say God has never once defied any of his laws?
Post by
Monday
What kind of logic is that? I make sure my sister only has her alloted forty five minutes of television, yet I can do the same for hours. Are you seriously going to say God has never once defied any of his laws?
Yup.
Post by
Queggy
I'm not really going to get involved in this, I just wanted to interject one thing into this thread.
Some of you are trying to say that God invented the logic and laws of the universe and is therefore constrained by them. This isn't true. God is too "big" to be constrained by "laws." For example, scientifically speaking, everything has a beginning and an end. It is born and then it is dead. God wasn't and won't be. He has always been and always will be. The concept of infinity completely boggles the mind when you think about it. We as humans can't understand it because we are not eternal ourselves. It's like a fish trying to understand a land mammal (bad analogy?).
So to try and say God has to follow the logic and laws of the universe is silly. He is GOD. We can't comprehend his ways.
It's like how people like to ask Christians the question about whether or not God can make a rock so big He can't lift it. That question right there assumes that God is constrained by the physical, mental, spiritual, etceterii (is that even a word?) that makes us, us and him, him.
And now I'm gone. I've said my piece.
Post by
Orranis
What kind of logic is that? I make sure my sister only has her alloted forty five minutes of television, yet I can do the same for hours. Are you seriously going to say God has never once defied any of his laws?
Yup.
I'm pretty sure running rampant through Egypt murdering first born children classifies as breaking the commandment 'Thou Shalt not Kill.'
Post by
149406
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
The best thing about this is that I'm an Atheist. I just understand where they're coming from and felt like having some fun.
I want to applaud this attitude. It demonstrates an appreciation for religion, and debating in this manner allows people to understand both sides of the story - making for a much better argument all around.
Anyway, just to go through a few things:
MyTie's point on 6000 years - there is no reason why God could not have set the universe in motion, and created things that appear to be 15 million years old. Even today, we can create diamonds from synthesised pressure and heat - it's entirely possible to 'plant' false evidence of a distant past, so the idea that it 'must' be 15 million years old is an argument based on false premises (i.e. that the observations taken are 100% reflective of the actual past).
Omnipotence and Free Will - God can't create something that isn't something. Full stop. That in no way diminishes his omnipotence.
Free will - I understand the Christian view on free will (unlike some others here), but I do disagree with it. I believe that the act of creating a physical being, irrespective of whether you give it the ability to perform moral good and moral evil, is, in essence, binding it to its physical possibilities, and restricting it in the first place.
The idea that 'to create a being that can only do moral good doesn't allow free will' can be extended. Why can't we be God-like? Because we're bound by the limitations of what God created us as. Is this not a restriction that would prevent free will?
As physical beings, we are bound by the physical environment that God created. Our actions, reactions are all essentially hard-wired into us. We can only make a single decision to do something, because the entire history of our past leads us to do so. (Determinism.) Is this not a contravention of free will? Or instead, do we need to argue that the conscious choices we make constitute our free will?
Consider that all people are born in sin. Even if we consider 'free will' to refer to conscious choices, I don't necessarily believe that a young child can make a conscious choice to do anything. At what point have these children chosen a morally evil or sinful path? Is a baby's crying and reaching out for attention, food, love, is this sinful? And if it is, did they have a choice, or was it hard-coded into their creation?
My personal view of the free will argument is that it is analogous to the Sims computer game. God is the player, creating these sims (us) with unique personalities, sets us to run on our AI. But our AI is spelt out and programmed (God is also the game programmer), so there are fixed things that we would do at any point in time, in reaction to the environment. So God can know what we'll do in our future, but he'll still sit there and shake his head and sigh at us when we screw up. And occasionally drag us into line by summoning a pillar of fire into the game and scaring us into submission.
Edit:
He is GOD. We can't comprehend his ways.
I know you've said your piece, and I respect your views, but I believe that the argument is a cop-out. If you truly don't understand his ways, why do you believe in him? How is his promise any more valid than my promise that I'll give your family a billion dollars to look after them when you die?
Post by
204878
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Post by
Queggy
What kind of logic is that? I make sure my sister only has her alloted forty five minutes of television, yet I can do the same for hours. Are you seriously going to say God has never once defied any of his laws?
Yup.
God has broken the Sixth commandment on no less than
2,391,421
occasions. And that doesn't include the time he killed everyone on Earth with the flood.
Technically, since God controls everything, even the time of our deaths, one could argue that everyone that has ever lived has been "killed" by God.
Post by
Squishalot
What kind of logic is that? I make sure my sister only has her alloted forty five minutes of television, yet I can do the same for hours. Are you seriously going to say God has never once defied any of his laws?
Yup.
God has broken the Sixth commandment on no less than
2,391,421
occasions. And that doesn't include the time he killed everyone on Earth with the flood.
Technically, since God controls everything, even the time of our deaths, one could argue that everyone that has ever lived has been "killed" by God.
But that would be a contravention of free will :)
Post by
204878
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