Post by Aeliel
Specifically answering your question: it doesn't. It might seem a good idol on paper, but Lacerate frontloads most of its threat (in other words, most of the threat done by Lacerate is applied when the direct damage occurs, and only very little is generated by the bleed).
More in general, what idol is good for tanking vastly depends on what you want to get out of it.
Extra threat generation:
Idol of the Wild or
Idol of Brutality (possibly
Idol of the White Stag, though I've never done the math and in general it's an incredibly lousy idol, especially for where it's from)
Extra avoidance:
Idol of TerrorNote that Idol of Terror also sporadically increases your threat generation as a side effect (it grants agility, which gives you not only extra chance to dodge, but also extra chance to crit - and since bear form threat generation is based on the damage you do, and crits increase the damage you do...).
Also note that in general, you shouldn't be having issues with threat generation (and if you are, they usually won't be something simply switching an idol can solve), while extra avoidance is always good.
So I would say the Idol of Terror is the best you can possibly get for tanking right now :)
Post by InfernoMan
But until you get the 20 badges of justice for that idol, use the Idol of the Wild. More mangle damage will generate alot more threat than the increased
periodic (not initial) damage of lacerate. the bulk of the threat from lacerate is from the initial application of it, the ticks do only a slight amount.
Taken from Druid Wiki: (
http://druid.wikispaces.com/Druid_Game_Mechanics#tocDruid_Game_Mechanics17)
Mangle (Bear): Damage done * 1.3
Example: Mangle crits for 1000 damage. 1000 * 1.3 * 1.3 = 1690 threat (1885 for 3/3 Feral Instinct).
Lacerate: 285 innate threat + damage done * 0.2
Say you lacerate 3 times for 21 + 22 + 21 instant damage, and Lacerate ticks for 752 over a period.
Total threat generated: (285 * 3 + (21 + 22 + 21 + 752) * 0.2) * 1.3 = 1323,66 threat
Hope this helps.
Post by ignis86
honestly on non bleedable mobs i tank with
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=23198since looking at the charts for gruul where i off tanked most of my damage came from maul.... simply put it hits way more often than mangle... will probably use the badge one when i get enough of them
bleedable mobs/bosses i do use the
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27744
Post by Aeliel
since looking at the charts for gruul where i off tanked most of my damage came from maul.... simply put it hits way more often than mangle...
Slightly more than twice as often, yes, since it's an "on next attack" type of ability and, therefore, dependent on bearform's attack speed (which is 2.5), while Mangle has a cooldown of 6 seconds.
Still, Idol of the Wild and Idol of Brutality are pretty equivalent in threat:
Mangle threat: dmg * 1.3
Maul threat: dmg + 322
Idol of the Wild extra threat: 51.75 * 1.3 = 67.275 threat every 6 seconds = ~11.2 threat per second
Idol of Brutality extra threat: 50 (just the damage) every 2.5 seconds = 20 threat per second
In an infinite rage situation, Idol of Brutality is better (just as in an infinite rage situation, Maul offers the best threat generation); however, in a non-ideal situation, if you queue up Maul
all the time you will quickly find yourself out of rage (because Maul converts what would be a white hit into a special, and specials don't generate any rage beyond what you get from crits via Primal Fury, while white hits do).
Granted, Idol of Brutality buffs Swipe as well, but you would need to be extremely well-geared to have Swipe generate equivalent threat to Lacerate on a single target (and by that point, you're going to want Idol of Terror anyway, for the avoidance - if you're hitting that hard, you won't really have issues with threat generation). (On three targets, Swipe
is more efficient at building threat on off-targets than tab-Lacerate is in terms of rage spent, but it largely depends on what your playing field is and whether you can freely Swipe without breaking crowd control.)
There's also one more factor to keep in mind: most if not all druids (it largely depends on how you play, but every druid I've seen does this) use Mangle as a "snap aggro" tool.
Opening with a Mangle on your primary target mob will give you a bit more of a headstart on threat than opening with a Maul or a Lacerate (Mangle: * 1.3, Maul: + 322, Lacerate: 285 static threat frontloaded). Increasing Mangle's threat might therefore be more worthwhile than increasing Maul's, even though it could mean slightly less threat generated over time, simply because it lets your DPS start working on the mob faster (which can help on bosses that have enrage timers, or fights where your healers' mana gets very quickly strained, or both).
It all depends on the situation. On average, I would still figure them to be about equivalent, with one idol or the other taking advantage in one fight or the other. Might be worthwhile to simply carry both and switch depending on the fight.
bleedable mobs/bosses i do use the
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27744Why? Threat generated by Lacerate ticks is negligible (just dmg * 0.2), as Lacerate frontloads most of its threat (as mentioned above).
Assuming you at the very least keep a 5-stack of Lacerate going, the Idol of Ursoc will give you 3 * 5 (stacks) * 5 (ticks) = 75 extra damage, which converts into 15 extra threat over 15 seconds - just one threat per second, by far inferior to both Idol of the Wild and Idol of Brutality.
Which is kind of... pathetic, really, and not worth equipping the idol for when you have much better choices available to you.
Post by ignis86
bleedable mobs/bosses i do use the
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27744Why? Threat generated by Lacerate ticks is negligible (just dmg * 0.2), as Lacerate frontloads most of its threat (as mentioned above).
Assuming you at the very least keep a 5-stack of Lacerate going, the Idol of Ursoc will give you 3 * 5 (stacks) * 5 (ticks) = 75 extra damage, which converts into 15 extra threat over 15 seconds - just one threat per second, by far inferior to both Idol of the Wild and Idol of Brutality.
Which is kind of... pathetic, really, and not worth equipping the idol for when you have much better choices available to you.
why? well for one on bosses who can have random aggro wipes, my bleed will continue to dot them and help be regain aggro (not much but *shrug* some is some), for two, the heck of it... lol i have NO threat generation issues really, although (sp?) now i have the idol of terror and i can really see myself loving extra mitigation from the + agi it procs for...
i have worked hard for my gear and have just recently shocked myself into realising jsut how well ive geared myself ^_^
Ignis of Scarlet Crusade