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When do warriors stop being..."swing" dependent?
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Post by
trademen
I'm currently leveling a warrior with BOA gear, I'm having a hell of a good time...but I'm kinda bored. It seems that 90% of being a warrior is just sitting back and waiting for your next swing. When do I get to press more buttons?
Oh, and I'm leveling arms and am level 18 right now.
Post by
131584
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Sakkura
Paladins (ret anyway) are even more autoattack machines at low levels. Don't worry, around level 40 it starts to pick up.
Post by
435881
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Lorkin
Paladins (ret anyway) are even more autoattack machines at low levels. Don't worry, around level 40 it starts to pick up.
Actually, Ret paladins have a lot more "buttons" than warriors do at lower levels. They get Judgements as early as level 4. Consecrate and exorcism at level 20. That's already 3 buttons they can press.
As horney said, arms is much better now with the changes since wotlk.
Post by
blademeld
As opposed to Rend, Thunderclap, Overpower, Heroic Strike (4)? And Mocking Blow...
Post by
Sakkura
Actually, Ret paladins have a lot more "buttons" than warriors do at lower levels. They get Judgements as early as level 4. Consecrate and exorcism at level 20. That's already 3 buttons they can press.
As horney said, arms is much better now with the changes since wotlk.
I have a level 35 paladin and a level 40 warrior (in addition to my level 80 one...), and I daresay the latter has a lot more buttons to push - of course helped by being level 40 (mortal strike, shield slam and bloodthirst become available at that point), but still. Exorcism is purely a pre-pull spell, so comparable to charge. Judgements are every 8 seconds, so comparable to overpower. Consecrate is the OOM button.
Post by
blademeld
Exorcism is purely a pre-pull spell, so comparable to charge. Judgements are every 8 seconds, so comparable to overpower. Consecrate is the OOM button.
Art of War will change your use of Exorcism, and you should be using Hand of Reckoning as the pull button. You shouldn't have problems with Consecrate if you use Judgement of Wisdom with Judgements of the Wise.
You also have Revenge, Cleave, etc.
Post by
Sakkura
Art of War will change your use of Exorcism, and you should be using Hand of Reckoning as the pull button. You shouldn't have problems with Consecrate if you use Judgement of Wisdom with Judgements of the Wise.
You also have Revenge, Cleave, etc.
Well, art of war is level 40+, which is when warriors also get new buttons to push, so that evens out. Hand of Reckoning is good for pulling, but still (usually) leaves time for an exorcism before the mob reaches you.
Revenge is defensive stance only, and thus not available for normal warrior levelling (at least until 50++ when prot becomes viable for levelling). Cleave is just a straight replacement for the autoattack (just like Heroic Strike, so you can only use one of the two), so it doesn't make warriors less swing dependent.
Overpower, rend etc. are enough to make us that bit less reliant on autoattacks at low levels than paladins IMO. Whether that's a good or a bad thing is purely a matter of taste.
Post by
Lorkin
As opposed to Rend, Thunderclap, Overpower, Heroic Strike (4)? And Mocking Blow...
Well yeah. You're counting total instant buttons, I'm talking about the ones that actually do damage and worth using while leveling up. Sure you can throw in demo shout as an instant but it does nada. Who actually TC's when grinding levels and mocking blow? HS is queued to next attack. So that leaves overpower (which is Dependant on your attack) and rend, which does squat for damage.
I have a level 35 paladin and a level 40 warrior (in addition to my level 80 one...), and I daresay the latter has a lot more buttons to push - of course helped by being level 40 (mortal strike, shield slam and bloodthirst become available at that point), but still. Exorcism is purely a pre-pull spell, so comparable to charge. Judgements are every 8 seconds, so comparable to overpower. Consecrate is the OOM button.
Well you're comparing a level 40 warrior and 35 paladin. I'm comparing straight level 20 toons, which is related to the OP's level 18 toon. He would see more "buttons to push" on a paladin than a warrior, until level 40 as people has said. Also my experience leveling a paladin had exorcism as an instant ability. Paladins don't get that not until they spec into Art of War at level 40.
Art of War will change your use of Exorcism, and you should be using Hand of Reckoning as the pull button. You shouldn't have problems with Consecrate if you use Judgement of Wisdom with Judgements of the Wise.
You also have Revenge, Cleave, etc.
Hand of Reck does minimal damage, it's their version of taunt. Consecrate, though expensive, does a ton of damage. It allows you to do groups of mobs at early levels. Even if you have to sit and drink earlier on, it's worth using.
Why are you including ALL instant abilities that don't relate to this topic? You mention that you have Overpower, Heroic Strike, Revenge, and Cleave. Well Overpower and Revenge are linked (i.e. same ability and same CD), and so is HS and Cleave which are both next on attack abilities (not instant). Listing tons of abilities you don't normally use to grinding mobs while leveling up doesn't help.
Post by
Sakkura
Okay, level 20 then.
In-combat abilities:
Warrior - (Heroic Strike), Rend, Thunder Clap, Overpower, Disarm. Execute at 24, Sunder Armor and Demoralizing Shout options available vs. difficult mobs.
Paladin - Judgement of <whateveryouprefer>, (Consecration), Seal of Command (or Righteousness), Hammer of Justice. Purify when needed, Lay on Hands and Bubbles avaliable vs. difficult mobs.
Seems to confirm that warriors have a bit more to work with. Even more if you add Battle Shout as an in-combat ability, since the duration is so much shorter than blessings.
Post by
Sakkura
Hand of Reck does minimal damage, it's their version of taunt.
It does 50% AP as holy damage, which is not minimal. It is also very, very cheap in terms of mana.
Post by
Rubendesmet619
Level to 80. Then make a judgement.
Post by
Sakkura
Level to 80. Then make a judgement.
Have fun levelling a paladin to 80 without judgements ;P
Post by
Lorkin
Okay, level 20 then.
In-combat abilities:
Warrior - (Heroic Strike), Rend, Thunder Clap, Overpower, Disarm. Execute at 24, Sunder Armor and Demoralizing Shout options available vs. difficult mobs.
Paladin - Judgement of <whateveryouprefer>, (Consecration), Seal of Command (or Righteousness), Hammer of Justice. Purify when needed, Lay on Hands and Bubbles avaliable vs. difficult mobs.
Seems to confirm that warriors have a bit more to work with. Even more if you add Battle Shout as an in-combat ability, since the duration is so much shorter than blessings.
Again, you guys are listing total abilities not just the useful ones. Who uses sunder armor, demo shout, disarm, TC, mocking blow, and taunt when they are leveling? When I level my warriors, I generally only use OP and Heroic strike, and rarely rend.
Bringing in Battle shouts too? These are buffs and you didn't include the paladin buffs. If you really want to bring in all a paladin can do you can include all the heals, buffs, purifies, auras, hammer of justice, bubbles, the other seals, etc, etc. We should compare only the useful leveling abilities you normally use for each rotation for each mob. Those include the small list I first posted.
Post by
Sakkura
Again, you guys are listing total abilities not just the useful ones. Who uses sunder armor, demo shout, disarm, TC, mocking blow, and taunt when they are leveling? When I level my warriors, I generally only use OP and Heroic strike, and rarely rend.
Bringing in Battle shouts too? These are buffs and you didn't include the paladin buffs. If you really want to bring in all a paladin can do you can include all the heals, buffs, purifies, auras, hammer of justice, bubbles, the other seals, etc, etc. We should compare only the useful leveling abilities you normally use for each rotation for each mob. Those include the small list I first posted.
I did list only the useful ones. I specifically split off stuff like demo shout into a "not used on ordinary mobs" category. If you don't use thunder clap (at low levels) and disarm while levelling, well then it's your loss. They are very useful. Leaving out rend is completely ridiculous, it is one of your key abilities. It sucked for years, but in its current state it is very much worth it. Even more so when you get taste for blood.
Battle shout has a base 2 minute duration with a resource that decays out of combat. Blessings have a base 10 minute duration with a resource that replenishes out of combat. Still don't see any difference?
Auras = stances. I did bring in purify, hammer of justice, and bubbles, but apparently you can't read. Alternative seals do not constitute extra buttons since they are mutually exclusive. I still listed the alternative though.
Oh, and I didn't even include the cooldowns, which for the most part are longer on the paladin abilities.
Post by
blademeld
Consecrate is not worth using for a ret paladin at level 20, it does ~10-12 damage per tick for 26% mana that's 80-96 damage per mob over 8 seconds at the cost of a huge portion of your mana. Rend also does ~80 damage over 15 seconds with a green weapon and ~135 with a blue weapon , which is only 1-3 DPS lower than consecrate and costs far less comparative to the other spells available.
Consecrate is not worth the downtime for a paladin unless there are 3-5 mobs on the paladin.
If we're talking about "useful" abilities, as you claim, ignoring things like TC, Cleave, etc, the only buttons for paladins to press are Hand of Reckoning, Judgements and Exorcism (3).
Warriors have minimum of Charge, Heroic Strike and Rend/Overpower.
I have no idea why you say Mocking Blow is is useless though.
Post by
trademen
for crying out loud...where in my title or opening post did you people read "lets talk about leveling a paladin". This IS the warrior forum, right?
Post by
blademeld
Your question was answered in the first couple posts, it got sidetracked after that :P
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