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What if consencrate healed? A new aoe heal, WHAT?
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Post by
Squishalot
And as YJMark points out, you can do EoE with pally healers too. Likewise, it's not game breaking.
Maybe because I don't play holy, I don't see what the big deal is. We've got Beacon, we've got glyph of Holy Light, and we're not designed to be a raid healer. I also don't see that there's a big need to make Rets ranged DPS either.
I'm not arguing that single target heals should be nerfed as a result of providing an AoE heal. I'm just saying that the lack of an AoE heal isn't the end of the world, and trying to create one that doesn't break the game balance is likely to be too difficult - easier to leave everyone in their niche roles.
I presented a fairly well reasoned argument about why his spell would be OP, and would likely be misused. But if you nerf it as a result, it then becomes unusable in an ordinary raid context. If you talent it up as you suggest, you might as well just give us Circle of Healing and be done with it.
The reason I disapprove of the thread mostly is because of the way Gibby presented the idea in the first place. He's basically arguing for an AoE heal, being told that it's not a good idea, and then started qq'ing over the fact that people are disagreeing with him, without looking at the merits of why they're disagreeing. Then asked us to look at the merits of his idea despite the fact that it's gamebreaking. What's the point? YJMark had it right - you can analyse it all you like, but you're either going to break the game, or create a useless skill/talent. Either way, it's a waste of time.
Post by
179128
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gibby
The reason I disapprove of the thread mostly is because of the way Gibby presented the idea in the first place. He's basically arguing for an AoE heal, being told that it's not a good idea, and then started qq'ing over the fact that people are disagreeing with him, without looking at the merits of why they're disagreeing. Then asked us to look at the merits of his idea despite the fact that it's gamebreaking. What's the point? YJMark had it right - you can analyse it all you like, but you're either going to break the game, or create a useless skill/talent. Either way, it's a waste of time.
You know, people could be decent and just be insightful for once. It may be a tad of a time waster, but
YES IT IS
. THIS IS A GAME. I'm going to spend time thinking of new things, whether they be overpowered, crazy, or just plain stupid. I asked you to offer constructive critisicm a couple times, nothing still. I'm getting somewhat tired of your continuous bashing, it's not productive, and you continue to fight with half the people who look at this thread.
Just offer a fix, or get out.
Post by
pezz
He isn't offering a fix because there isn't one. There isn't a right way to put this idea into the game. We aren't meant to be amazing at AoE healing but we do have some capability. If you use that capability as well as it can be used you'll already be good enough at AoE healing and if you don't use the tools we have well enough don't ask Blizzard to break a class to compensate.
Post by
xaratherus
Ghostcrawler stated in the Shaman QA (I think it was that one) that even though both sides now have Paladins and Shamans, they are still opposite sides of the scales.
If Shamans are decent at AoE healing, then Paladins should be decent at AoE mitigation. Rather than healing a group's damage, you could get the same effect by lessening the AoE damage taken by the raid.
To that end, I would propose that
Divine Sacrifice
be moved from the Prot tree to the Holy tree. This would remove some of the need for an AoE heal, and would fit with the concept of the Paladin as a Holy warrior and defender (taking her comrades' pain up on herself so that they may continue fighting).
The downside, of course, would be that the Paladin would then have to ensure that she didn't take too much damage, and would have to either heal herself or have someone else heal her for the spell's duration.
Post by
138584
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
Squish he didnt bring up anything about Rets, you did. This is not a waste of time, except for you maybe since you have already written so many responses which havn't contributed anything except propell more negativity and personal insult.
Please quote for me where I suggested that YJMark said anything about Rets? What I'm arguing is that wanting a true AoE heal is no different from wanting true ranged DPS. You can get by without either, so it's not worth crying over. As for my responses, see below.
The reason I disapprove of the thread mostly is because of the way Gibby presented the idea in the first place. He's basically arguing for an AoE heal, being told that it's not a good idea, and then started qq'ing over the fact that people are disagreeing with him, without looking at the merits of why they're disagreeing. Then asked us to look at the merits of his idea despite the fact that it's gamebreaking. What's the point? YJMark had it right - you can analyse it all you like, but you're either going to break the game, or create a useless skill/talent. Either way, it's a waste of time.
You know, people could be decent and just be insightful for once. It may be a tad of a time waster, but
YES IT IS
. THIS IS A GAME. I'm going to spend time thinking of new things, whether they be overpowered, crazy, or just plain stupid. I asked you to offer constructive critisicm a couple times, nothing still. I'm getting somewhat tired of your continuous bashing, it's not productive, and you continue to fight with half the people who look at this thread.
Just offer a fix, or get out.
I offered you an extremely constructive scenario of why it is OP and why it wouldn't make it into the final game. Constructive is giving you feedback to help you refine your ideas. An in-game scenario is the best feedback of all. What more do the two of you expect?
If you nerf it so that it can't be used in that manner, then you can't use it the way you want to.
If you change it in the way Atremini suggests, then you basically have a Priest skill, and again, it unbalances the game.
I don't have a suggestion on how to fix it, because I don't think there's a way of doing it. All I'm going to do is remind you guys when you're taking changes too far away from what WoW needs to be. If you don't like that, then go play on a private server where you can unbalance your characters as much as you want. I'm just trying to add some realism, seeing as Gibby wants to make this a real thing, to the extent that he wants to talk to Blizz about implementing it.
Edit: fixed quoting to credit the right people.
Edit 2: Let's look at the thread history, shall we?
Gibby: Here's a great idea for a new AoE healing spell.
Me: It's not lore, it's not needed, it'll unbalance the game, it's not what we do.
Gibby: You can't just say everyone has a niche, we should have variety.
Me: Everyone does have a niche <insert proof>. If you wouldn't want to give Rets ranged dps, you shouldn't want to give Holys AoE heals.
Gibby: Ok, so it breaks the niches and unbalances the game. But what about the spell itself? Give me some feedback on that?
Me: Here's a sample scenario where it could be abused in a 10-man raid environment. The tank would end up getting immensely overhealed and unkillable, due to the constant healing stream, and the buffs associated with 5 paladins.
*cough* how exactly am I not being productive?
Edit 3: Atremini, you also made a comment about keeping Consecrate down infinitely and Holy pallies being unable to do it, and wanting someone to prove/disprove it. I responded to that with both a suggested rotation and with the math demonstrating that it's less mana intensive than what Holy pallies are dealing with at the moment. Perhaps you missed that too, in amongst all the bile that you think I'm spewing?
Post by
Quest
This idea is new and fresh.
Post by
Gibby
You aren't grasping what I'm saying. I'm asking for you to offer a suggestion, improvement, or even an idea pertaining to consencrate. Why not instead of continuously disproving of this thread, YOU BE THE SAVIOR, and offer a fix.
What I'm not asking for is problems / exploits / OPness / balance-issues. Find a way to improve upon this idea, instead of trying to look down upon everyone for failing to see how "stupid" this is, maybe you could just live a little. Hell it may be a bit overpowered, it just might not make thing fair, and it may seem strange... But dude, it's a suggestion, it's not totally serious, and has less than a 0.01% chance of making it in-game? Enough disproving, try (if possible) to enjoy yourself.
-I don't want to seem like an ass, but you continually do this-
Post by
Squishalot
You aren't grasping what I'm saying. I'm asking for you to offer a suggestion, improvement, or even an idea pertaining to consencrate. Why not instead of continuously disproving of this thread, YOU BE THE SAVIOR, and offer a fix.
What I'm not asking for is problems / exploits / OPness / balance-issues. Find a way to improve upon this idea, instead of trying to look down upon everyone for failing to see how "stupid" this is, maybe you could just live a little. Hell it may be a bit overpowered, it just might not make thing fair, and it may seem strange... But dude, it's a suggestion, it's not totally serious, and has less than a 0.01% chance of making it in-game? Enough disproving, try (if possible) to enjoy yourself.
-I don't want to seem like an ass, but you continually do this-
Have you ever considered that I don't actually have a
good
idea to make your idea work?
If you want to improve on an idea, take the constructive feedback. I'm not imaginative enough to design a fair ability, nor do I want to try - my imagination typically only goes far enough to rip apart and exploit ideas, and take advantage of holes in design. And yes, I regularly do that in real life, including occasions as a part of my work, and yes, I do enjoy it, thank you very much.
If you're the developer, coming up with this great new idea, then I envisage my role as QA tester, to let you know why this idea might not work. If you want to make this idea work, use the feedback and design something that overcomes the obstacles that I'm throwing up to you.
Since you're so desperate for something, here's a suggestion - make Consecrate an AoE heal that heals raid members standing in it for the same amount of damage that it does (spread evenly between targets). Sorta like an AoE, unchanneled Drain Life.
Does that sound good? Sounds nice. Does it overcome the obstacles that I put up to yours? Yes, you can't abuse it by stacking it down, since the damage to one boss from Consecrate is so minimal, it won't heal all the melee by very much. Does it solve your original problem about not having an AoE heal? No, because it requires you to actually be attacking at the same time, and because the amount it heals is so pathetic.
Ok, your turn. If you want to develop an idea, and this is either in Real Life or in WoW, be prepared to cop flak and for the problems to be pointed out. If you *really* want to develop an idea, then take those points, and redesign your idea to overcome them, rather than sit back and hope someone else will find the solution for you.
Post by
106607
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
How many healers are there? 4. How many are decent raid healers? 2 - Priest and Druid.
How many Melee DPS specs are there? Warrior * 2, Paladin * 1, Rogue * 3, DK (hard to say, call it 1.5, since it's a tank crossover). Shaman * 1, Druid * 0.5 (feral DPS is laughable), call it 9.
How many ranged DPS specs are there? Hunter * 3 (survival still counts, they're ranged overall), Warlock * 3, Mage * 3, Priest * 1, Shaman * 1, Druid * 1. So it's 9 vs 13.
If it's a toss up between Beacon and Lesser Healing Wave, I'll keep Beacon, thank you very much.
Post by
114588
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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