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Well here we go....rejuv nerf
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Post by
Katsudon
We're not arguing the same thing, though. You're saying that its not worth it on a burst AoE fight, whereas I am. Now, you can have your feelings about it - but I've seen it in action. Hodir 25 I was 6% above a healer that I am normally 4% below (a resto druid as well) because I used this method and he did not.
Yes, there is the constant aura, but during frozen blows it really helped to have people pre-hotted for it. There's other fights where I've used this technique as well, such as XT (tantrum) which do not have a static aura.
New subtopic - this really doesn't address how druids are OP. Druids are not OP because we can HoT up 18 people. We are OP because of the versatility and mobility of our heals. Our HoTs can turn into an incredible set of tank heals -or- raid heals, based on whether we stack or spread them. Wild Growth is a nice AoE heal or a buff for Nourish. We can cast our main 3 HoTs on the move, and our main nuke heal is a 1.5 sec cast before haste or Nature's Grace. Just to prove this point I never stopped running on Anub'Arak in H AN and I still kept us all at 100% while maintining >90% mana. Druids also are the best at dealing with stuns/silences or similar effects because we have so many HoTs (think back to TBC bear-boss in ZA, or Gruul's AoE silence). We can roll hots on multiple tanks in PvE or players in PvP, making it hard to switch.
Paladins, on the other hand, only have HoTs on their target; their AoE is tied to either a specific secondary target or a glyph on their big nuke heal, and thus are very limitted in what they can do. They only have 1 mobile heal, and it's on a CD.
Shamans have decent hots and decent mobile heals on 1 person, but on AoE they have to turret. Priests are actually very good if played well, but are even harder than druids. What Blizzard needs to do is not nerf druid's numbers, but buff the mechanics of the metal classes.
The only time where prehotting as many people in the raid is really needed is either: constant raid damage (like aura effect), or aoe raid damage that is fatal if unchecked immediately.
You're example is Hodir. Hodir has a.) continual raid damage applied through aura and b.) fatal damage if unchecked immediately damage through frozen blows raid-wide damage (4k per 2 seconds for 20 seconds = 40k total damage unresisted. Add in frost resist and your looking at around 20k+ damage per person if not healed.) So yes, you are arguging the exact point i said.
You can try to raise your HPS if its important to you by prehoting everyone during fights like ignus or kologarn where theres periodic raid burst damage, but it doesn't really matter as that damage is non-fatal unless you dont heal the raid up by the 2nd raid burst.
Post by
349759
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Post by
orthedos
Yes its a nerf, yes at the worst its 12-20% reduction in throughput depending on the fight, the raid/5man composition, blah blah blah. But before we jump off the top of the building, lets take a look.
Rj is 60%+ of my total heals, would bliz let that go on forever? Should they? If they do not nerf T8 set bonus, I do not think anyone care for T9 for all the hassles (2x trophy is a dream for players not in a serious raid guild).
More than half of my Rj is overhealing, as I pre-HoT. That halves right away the magnitude of nerfing. I can easily HoT 10+ people with my Rj now, that really push WG into a backseat position. Should that be Blizz's wish? WG is supposed to be a shiny spell we learn only at hi levels.
Rj + WG is all I caste now, practically. SM for emergency yes, Nourish when I need to pull one body up, but look at the throughput. Rj is always half or more of any tree, that and WG, we practically caste nothing else of significance. Is that a healthy game setup?
I know. with this nerf, I have to start thinking again. Rotation, priority, combos and mix. Lots of thinking. Is that not nice?
If you really need to compare with other classes, I have T8+ geared priest and holy paly too. Of the 3, a tree is most versatile. Mobility, longevity, span of coverage, decurse, come on, this compares well with the strength of priest (CoH+PoH) and paly (beacon and overhealing single targets).
You really think that trees will go out of favor? No way. I have seen 25ToCs without paly, without priest, but seldom without trees. I have equally geared tanks and dpsx2, I been in every instance. Trees are almost always there, so many that I feel sad as they always beat me in rolls for gear when I heal. When I play paly, I got every piece of metal drops. Every.
The only good thing that will come forth is
- we need to think again, and adapt.
- maybe some trees that are less efficient will fade out as they cannot survive simply spamming and maintaining 18 Rjs brainlessly and tops the heal chart, totally unfair to Disc
- other classes come back to heal, priest pls, and hehe, I can be the only tree and auto win leather SP gear.
Seriously, healing is a team work. You do not need to top healing chart to get things done. Disc are low on the charts, are they really useless? If you only look at your own hps, your own position in the chart, you are not a team member. You may do well in 5man, but in a raid, you do not generate synergy. Instead of feeling jealous about the other classes, think about how to work WITH them. Don't worry, a tree, at least one, can always find his way into a raid, so long as he knows how to heal. A tree will always be welcome, if he earns the trust and respect of other members, especially other healers. You earn it not be trying to beat others on a stupid chart, you earn it keeping the team/raid alive.
Last but not least, go play a priest, play a paly. Come back here and tell us, is a tree totally gimped?
Post by
Celdhyrean
This is a ridiculous nerf.
It actually buts Rejuvenation on par or even below a Priests Renew (since they got the 4t8 bonus as talent).
In a fight like Twin Valkyrs this will be a 12% nerf to my overall hps. Not to mention that it severely tightens our rotation in a 10man, making Druid healing much more difficult.
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2009/august/ensidiatwins.jpg
(hint, look at the heal meter)
Yeah, druid heals on massive aoe fights (which you take yourself as an example) were so hard and we had to play so smart to equate other healers throughput.
This is quite a noticeable nerf to our hps especially in high raid damage environments, but honestly it was getting kind of ridiculous as it was so easy to heal for so much. Also, this nerf only affects hps in high raid damage situations, since you shouldn't be prehotting as many persons as you can on other types of fights (ie it'll mainly impact our mana consumption rather than our hps in those other fights)
Post by
303152
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Post by
Celdhyrean
Yes, but as i've said, in fights where you don't spam rejuv this nerf is only going to affect your mana consumption and not your healing throughput : you are going to lose a bit on Nourrishes, but it comes down to 7 less Nourrishes per main target on a 10 min fight and that's not going to change your stats in a major way (let's say 2 main targets ie a 100k healing on average of which half is overheal).
Tree form bonus is shared with paladin imp devo aura, and then there's just the added armor. Depending on raid conditions, you can actually heal in elf form without losing anything. Also dps'ing is fine and all but it's something you do during predictable no-damage times (IC stun, Razorscale on the ground in p1, XT heart, ...) where 1 GCD at the end to go back to tree doesn't really matter anyway.
Post by
404185
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Post by
349759
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Post by
orthedos
Yes its a nerf, yes at the worst its 12-20% reduction in throughput
...
Rj + WG is all I caste now, practically. SM for emergency yes, Nourish when I need to pull one body up, but look at the throughput. Rj is always half or more of any tree, that and WG, we practically caste nothing else of significance. Is that a healthy game setup?
Yes it is a Nerf! It will hurt Druid healing! Not all Druids get to run Hard-Modes where Rj spam shines. Infact MOST run Normal-mode instances and are easily outhealed/overwritten by Priests/Shaman healing. Do those Druids deserve to be pushed further down the meters because of a few fights/hard-modes?
1. Other that a few Hard-Mode Ulduar Fights, Druids DON'T dominate charts. Infact, A druid won't top charts except in a few select fights. Some hard-mode fights and 3 normal mode fights (Sath, Miniron, Faction are the ones that come to mind). On ALL other fights Priests and Shaman can Dominate healing by using AOE healing and over-writing Druid HoTs.
2. Only on the few above mentioned fights does Rj+WG account for most Druid healing. Only bad Druids spam Rj+WG on every fight. Yes RJ is probably the single most healing done spell for most druids, but it is more around 30-35% of thier total healing done!
3. Gearing, Gylphing, and speccing to use a SPECIFIC heal is NOT new. And even then Druids use RJ for up to 35% of thier total heals is not out of line! What else are druids supposed to use as thier main heal? Maybe you think Healing Touch or the nerfed LifeBloom should make up most of a Druids healing?
Last but not least, go play a priest, play a paly. Come back here and tell us, is a tree totally gimped?
Actually what spells and abilities do OTHER healing classes give up? There is NO other healing class that give up 50% of thier abilities to heal as well as the others? Tree-of-Life, which is required to be equal to other healers, locks the Druid out of ALL offensive casting and until recently even from dispelling,buffing, ect. I know my Priest or Pally can easily throw out damage spells when needed withOUT extra GCDs and mana costs of shifting into and out of "healing" forms.
I think you already confirmed my writing.
You are looking at the heal chart in a competitive mindset, you are competing with you fellow (possibly non druid) healers. You are not working as a team.
If your team lives and you done your part, the heal meter is stupid. If I am dispelling, my heal thru-put will drop, by as much as 50+% during faction champion fights (before the nerf). Would my guild kick me? No.
If you are hotting, you are doing something other healers depend on. Your heals are ticking, allowing spot healers to pick the most vulnerable dying member to heal, allowing priest to avoid spamming PoM, CoH, PoH, so they won't go OOM that fast ... . If your TEAM of healers know their job, they won't argue about ranking on a healer chart.
If they argue, go find a better team. Its team work in a raid healing. Not you.
As for offense ability from a priest or paly. Come on, I seldom have time to caste a judgment spell from my paly, and my priest hardly got the mana to dps. DPS from a healer is pathetic. Save your GCDs and mana for your job. If you go dps and got stuck in GCD or oom getting your raid members killed ... One thing I am sure, you will be hitting like a baby, and you will not gain aggro.
Come to think of it, you are competing with your fellow healers, you want to compete with your fellow DPS. Do you also want to tank, to pull, to CC?
Post by
229037
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Post by
219211
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Post by
Jrubzjeknf
What are all these people crying about? Suddenly they can't heal the encounters any more because Reju loses a single tick?
Post by
229037
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
219211
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Heckler
As expected, the 15-sec-to-12-sec Rejuv bugfix has caused the need for a balance adjustment; on the PTR:
Rejuvenation: The base duration on all ranks of this spell is now 15 seconds.
Wise words:
If it was making Druid healing better by being incorrect, and fixing it makes them worse, they will compensate elsewhere ... at some point.
No more tears.
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