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Varian Thread
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Post by
Fojar38
What about the quests in Gryzzly Hills, Howling Fjord and Storm Peaks that confirm Yogg Saron's existance and danger? Such as how Vordrassil was corrupted, how members of the Explorer's Guild were maddened and etc.
What about the lore keeper of Norgannon?
All right, I forgot about the lore keeper of Norgannon.
But which is a bigger threat, Yogg-Saron, or the Scourge?
I think that they're equal threats, and Varian considers the scourge a greater threat. This combined with his reluctance to work with the Horde led to him deciding not to shift the Alliance's attention to Ulduar. It appears that Thrall came to the same conclusion.
And I think that it was the right move anyway. At least we somewhat know what we're up against fighting the Scourge, but if they had rushed into Ulduar at that point they would effectively be going in blind. Combine this with the fact that Yogg-Saron was apparently biding his time while the Scourge was an immediate threat, I think his decision was understandable.
Besides, just like Tirion's strategy with Icecrown Citadel, sending in an elite strike force of 10/25 adventurers who specialize in dealing with such threats was likely more effective than throwing armies at it would've been.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Fojar38
I would pay money to see the look on Varian's face when Yogg-Saron did escape had the Kirin Tor and Explorer's League not picked up the ball... :P
And Garrosh's, and Thralls, and Brann's, and Sylvanas', and the Lich Kings, etc.
Are you suggesting that Varian would be the only one surprised? Thrall didn't seem too keen to send troops to Ulduar either.He was at war with the Alliance, and Varian and Garrosh made it quite obvious that they didn't want peace.
Besides... Varian said "May this Death god take you all..." as if Stormwind and him would be entirely invulnerable to ol' Yogg. It's his expression I want to see.
I don't think that's the same as saying "Yogg-Saron isn't a threat to the Alliance." I think it's just a really cool way of saying "I *really* don't like you right now."
It's interesting that people see fit to judge Varian based on what he does when he's angry, and forget everything else he does. That'd be like me judging Thrall exclusively based on how he acted at Durnholde and the extraordinarily arrogant and douchy message he sent the Alliance after he broke out of the internment camps.
Post by
Fojar38
The point is how Varian's stance was affected by his emotions.
Yeah, because he acts like a human being, which makes him more interesting than Thrall or Jaina.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
That'd be like me judging Thrall exclusively based on how he acted at Durnholde and the extraordinarily arrogant and douchy message he sent the Alliance after he broke out of the internment camps.I'm not sure what you're talking about...
He spared just about everyone in Durnholde, and the message he sent was one of non-aggression. "We don't want to hurt you, so don't hurt us..." and all that.
Post by
Patty
The funny thing is that Yogg-Saron at full strength is probably much more of a threat than the Scourge. The Titans couldn't kill them - they had to imprison them. Sargeras was one titan, corrupted the Eredar, and Kil'jaeden made the Lich King and the Scourge. Sargeras > Kil'jaeden > Lich King.
Therefore, we can quite safely assume that Yogg-Saron is of an equal, or greater, threat than the Scourge is.
Post by
Adamsm
Therefore, we can quite safely assume that Yogg-Saron is of an equal, or greater, threat than the Scourge is.Except there's those that references that the Scourge find the God of Death a joke, and that it's funny that their using his blood to make their fortresses.
Post by
Patty
Because he is in a weakened state. If he was at his full strength, he could probably /pwn the Lich King and the undying Black Knight.
Post by
Skreeran
No, they don't think he's a joke...
The word "Yogg-Saron" is said with great contempt and is usually followed by loud outbursts.
And don't forget: It cannot be... A forgotten one! Look to your defenses, Death Knight! Fight as you've never fought before!
Post by
Fojar38
I'm not sure what you're talking about...
He spared just about everyone in Durnholde, and the message he sent was one of non-aggression. "We don't want to hurt you, so don't hurt us..." and all that.
He also said, (Paraphrasing) "If you thought the Old Horde was bad, you ain't seen nothing yet." It was easily Thrall's greatest diplomatic blunder.
The funny thing is that Yogg-Saron at full strength is probably much more of a threat than the Scourge. The Titans couldn't kill them - they had to imprison them. Sargeras was one titan, corrupted the Eredar, and Kil'jaeden made the Lich King and the Scourge. Sargeras > Kil'jaeden > Lich King.
Therefore, we can quite safely assume that Yogg-Saron is of an equal, or greater, threat than the Scourge is.
Actually, the titans could and have killed Old Gods. They just learned that the Old Gods had essentially bound themselves to Azeroth, and that killing the Old Gods would destroy Azeroth as well.
In addition, the Lich King has grown drastically in power since he was created by Kil'jaeden; far beyond Kil'jaedens intentions. The Lich King is effectively a God at this point.
In addition, it appears that Yogg-Saron actually is submissive to an extent to the Lich King's will; as evidenced by the Yogg-Saron encounter. You know, "He will learn; now king rules forever!" and Yogg cursing the Lich King in some Old God tongue. As powerful as the Old Gods are, I'd say that the Lich King is more powerful than Yogg.
And once again, you assume that Varian knows all this stuff. Again, he doesn't have access to Wowwiki, and I've noticed lots of anti-Varian arguments assume he's privy to the same information as we, the players, are. He isn't.
Except there's those that references that the Scourge find the God of Death a joke, and that it's funny that their using his blood to make their fortresses.
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or not here; that essentially proves that the Lich King is dominating Yogg-Saron.
Post by
Fojar38
And don't forget: It cannot be... A forgotten one! Look to your defenses, Death Knight! Fight as you've never fought before!
Are you forgetting that this was before Arthas became the Lich King, and he still defeated it?
Post by
Adamsm
In addition, the Lich King has grown drastically in power since he was created by Kil'jaeden; far beyond Kil'jaedens intentions. The Lich King is effectively a God at this point.I wouldn't go that far; I think if Kil'jaeden was standing in front of the Lich King, he could probably just snap his fingers and drain all the Undeath magic out of the armour, Frostmourne and the body.
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or not here; that essentially proves that the Lich King is dominating Yogg-Saron.I'd say there more equal then one being more powerful then the other. But if Yogg had gotten back to full power, and he's the 'Old God Of Death', who knows what he could do to the Lich King.
Post by
Skreeran
He also said, (Paraphrasing) "If you thought the Old Horde was bad, you ain't seen nothing yet." It was easily Thrall's greatest diplomatic blunder.I really didn't interpret it that way. I'll go get LotC again if you really insist."
And the only reason LK is able to leech off of Yogg at this point is because Yogg is still imprisoned in Ulduar. He's just about to break free, and if he did, he'd be a much,
much
greater threat to life on Azeroth than the Lich King.
Post by
Fojar38
I wouldn't go that far; I think if Kil'jaeden was standing in front of the Lich King, he could probably just snap his fingers and drain all the Undeath magic out of the armour, Frostmourne and the body.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Lich_King#Godhood
I'd say there more equal then one being more powerful then the other. But if Yogg had gotten back to full power, and he's the 'Old God Of Death', who knows what he could do to the Lich King.
And once again it's assumed that Varian is privy to this information. I don't even think that Brann knows as much about Yogg-Saron as we do.
I really didn't interpret it that way. I'll go get LotC again if you really insist."
Sure. I'm 95% sure he says something similar to that. Along the lines of "If you don't give us what we want, then expect an army that makes the Old Horde pale in comparison."
Considering that the Old Horde made Azeroth a living hell for about a decade, I don't think the orcs were in any position to make any demands of the Alliance. It was easily one of the dumbest diplomatic moves that Thrall has made, the next being putting Sylvanas back in power after the Wrathgate.
If I wanted to, I could give Thrall the "Varian treatment" and judge him based on these two stupid moves. But I don't because I'm not dumb.
Which is why it bugs me that people trash Varian based on his mistakes but continue to worship Thrall despite his.
Post by
Skreeran
Well, I'll go get the book if you like, as soon as I'm at a good stopping point in my RP. I don't wanna hold everyone up.
Post by
Adamsm
I wouldn't go that far; I think if Kil'jaeden was standing in front of the Lich King, he could probably just snap his fingers and drain all the Undeath magic out of the armour, Frostmourne and the body.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Lich_King#Godhood
That doesn't prove he's a god. But my point does still stand, after all, Kil'jaeden gave him the power, he could take it away if he could actually get onto Azeroth to stand face to face. I think that's why the Scourge were attacking the Isle of Quel'danas, trying to stop Kil'jaeden from being summoned, same as the Alliance/Horde, only the Scourge were there because the Lich King was afraid.
Post by
Fojar38
It provides a good argument for him being a god.
I think that the reason there were Scourge on Quel'danas was for the same reason they're along the dead scar in Quel'thelas; they're remnants from the third war.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Patty
You Varian haters are pathetic.Yet you wonder why we say things to you and why you get backlash from some users?
I got news for you guys: You are not perfect. In fact, your not even average. You know us well enough to make that judgement, right? Anyway, what would we be average to?
I can not belive you guys are acting all stupied over a gamePot, kettle, black. The point of this board is to discuss what goes on within the game. It is easy to compare actions or people to real life examples, which Blizzard bases things from. If you think that is stupid, then why not go post in other forums?
You people are sad.Yet here you are, flaming us for no reason. GG.
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