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Varian Thread
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Post by
Adamsm
Aye, Medivh brought them together, he bonked the half-draenei Garona, now the quarter Draenei Med'an is next in line for Guardianship.... can see why the Draenei wanted to meet up with the one who brought the forces together for the Battle of Mt Hjyal.
Post by
Skreeran
I believe that this isn't completely valid. Gilneas left the Alliance way before the 3rd war If I recon. The problem is how Gilneas didn't try to help the outside world during it.Yes, they did. But that doesn't mean the Forsaken aren't still resentful about it. The Lordaeranians very likely called upon their old ties with Gilneas for aid, but didn't receive it. And to quote Wowwiki:
Even during the Scourge's invasion of Lordaeron, while human refugees came begging to be allowed in, the Greymane Wall remained closed.
I still disagree. Varian only lead Undercity until now. They are either equal or Jaina's a better commander.Well, he certainly has lead the Alliance's campaign in Northrend nicely. And as shown in the comics, he has tactical intuition as well.
Post by
Adamsm
Even during the Scourge's invasion of Lordaeron, while human refugees came begging to be allowed in, the Greymane Wall remained closedWell seeing as the werewolf curse had started at that point, what's worse? Being undead, or being Werewolf-undead.
Post by
Skreeran
Even during the Scourge's invasion of Lordaeron, while human refugees came begging to be allowed in, the Greymane Wall remained closedWell seeing as the werewolf curse had started at that point, what's worse? Being undead, or being Werewolf-undead.How do you know it had started at that point? Arugal fled to Shadowfang Keep to summon the Worgen in response to Dalaran being destroyed by the Scourge.
Also, whether or not it had started, I'm sure the Forsaken are mad about the Gilneans refusing to offer aid.
Post by
Patty
I am just theorising, but Velen wanted to join the Alliance because they fought the Burning Legion at Hyjal. Who was incharge of the
Alliance
forces there? Jaina.
The Night Elves were not part of the Alliance until afterwards.
If anyone should be given credit for directing the battle at Hyjal, it would be Tyrande and Malfurion. And who did Velen and the Draenei first have contact with on Azeroth? The Night Elves.
Bolded the key word, or the part you missed out. I never said Jaina was the supreme commander, I said she led the Alliance.
Post by
hymer
how can you compare the position of peon to that of leader?
It makes perfect sense. Look at the context. Patty pretty much wrote that Jaina was better at directing forces because she was at Mt. Hyjal. I just wanted to clear up that merely being there is not enough.
My conclusion is that Mt. Hyjal was much heavier than any other recent Battle. I would say that it comes to the level of Ancients, except when the ground sunders because of a giant goat charging the giant demon.
I agree, it is the Great Battle of these times. I've never said it wasn't. Having been there just doesn't make you a great commander.
The player couldn't control the human forces, the AI did. Which implies to Jaina leading herself.
good officers could reduce an inadequacy in this field. Jaina has spent most of her life studying magic, even if tactics was something her father made sure she learned.
It is possible to argue that Jaina may rely more heavily on her officers
Could be that Jaina directed them herself. Could be that she didn't. If she did, the AI is good at economy and micro management, but the player tends to beat it anyway. But that's just game mechanics.
I read somewhere on Wowwiki that Western and Eastern Alliance was quite divided. I believe it was on the Alliance article itself, but I'm not sure. Of course it wasn't directly related to Varian.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Alliance
The Alliance article does say that: "Theramore can be considered the official home of the new Alliance, but both the people and the leadership of Stormwind find it hard to accept. The inability of Stormwind to act forced both Theramore and the night elves to step in, resulting in a growing gap of cooperation between the two continents. Effectively, today's Alliance is in fact two Alliances not only working largely separately but also holding some kind of dislike against each other."
However, it also says: "Despite the problems and intrigues within their leadership, all parts of the Alliance are steadfast in their desire to reclaim and rebuild, and all members share a distrust of the Horde." This doesn't really fit with Jaina...
But this part of the article ends with "Things may have changed with the return of King Varian Wrynn."
It was written quite a while ago. Thanks for the pointer!
Post by
46491
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Patty
I am just theorising, but Velen wanted to join the Alliance because they fought the Burning Legion at Hyjal. Who was incharge of the
Alliance
forces there? Jaina.
The Night Elves were not part of the Alliance until afterwards.
If anyone should be given credit for directing the battle at Hyjal, it would be Tyrande and Malfurion. And who did Velen and the Draenei first have contact with on Azeroth? The Night Elves.
Bolded the key word, or the part you missed out. I never said Jaina was the supreme commander, I said she led the Alliance.
So if both Jaina's (Western) Alliance and the Night Elves were present at Hyjal, and the NE's had become part of the Alliance by the time the Draenei arrived, and the Draenei made first contact with the NE's, why do you assume that they joined because of Jaina? I'm not quite getting the logic there.
They joined because of what happened at Hyjal. Jaina and the Night Elves fought at Hyjal. Not Varian or Magni. I never said Jaina was the only reason, I said she was a significant factor which led to the Draenei joining.
Post by
Skreeran
They joined because of what happened at Hyjal. Jaina and the Night Elves fought at Hyjal. Not Varian or Magni. I never said Jaina was the only reason, I said she was a significant factor which led to the Draenei joining.I've never heard of that. According to Wowwiki:
After the dust settled and the draenei began to establish themselves in settlements built from the wreckage of the Exodar, Velen and his people set themselves to exploring their new homeworld. Word of a heroic Alliance of Light-wielding races had reached the Prophet and his people, and they set out to discover their potential new allies in their continued resistance to the Burning Crusade.
I mean, the Hyjal thing makes sense, but do you have a source.
Post by
Patty
I am sure I found something on Wowwiki (which I can't anymore) About them hearing of how Azeroth was the only known planet to have beat back the Burning Legion
...
twice
.
I might have misread what you linked though.
Also, according to Wowwiki they were intending to go to Azeroth, they just didn't quite land.
Post by
Arkham
And again, the Draenei are not against the Orcs, they've accepted what happened, and are moving past it. They know the Orc's are needed for the Army of Light, just like the Taurens, Trolls and Blood Elves will be, seeing as they have been fighting the same Fel Orcs, Undead, and Demons that the Alliance has.That point has been brought up before (in another thread I believe) but no evidence was provided to corroborate it (and there
is
evidence that the Broken and Lost Ones at least, have not forgiven the Orcs at all). As far as I'm concerned, the issue of whether or not the Draenei (as a whole, not just Velen) have forgiven the Orcs is still under contention.
Post by
Adamsm
They were intending to go to Azeroth? The Draenei were running away from the Blood Elves as they conquered Tempest Keep, where a lot of them were hiding after the Three Idiot's came through the Portal. The Exodar(the living quarters) was also the escape pod, and when they attempted to "planeshift" the Elves damaged the engines and that was why they crashed into Azeroth.
Post by
Skreeran
And again, the Draenei are not against the Orcs, they've accepted what happened, and are moving past it. They know the Orc's are needed for the Army of Light, just like the Taurens, Trolls and Blood Elves will be, seeing as they have been fighting the same Fel Orcs, Undead, and Demons that the Alliance has.That point has been brought up before (in another thread I believe) but no evidence was provided to corroborate it (and there
is
evidence that the Broken and Lost Ones at least, have not forgiven the Orcs at all). As far as I'm concerned, the issue of whether or not the Draenei (as a whole, not just Velen) have forgiven the Orcs is still under contention.But it's generally agreed that Velen has forgiven them, and considering the Draenei's massive faith in him and the Naaru (who also show no contention to the New Horde's orcs), I'd say most of them agree.
Post by
Patty
Recently Velen and the remaining draenei survivors gained control of one of Tempest Keep's satellite structures and used it to escape to Azeroth
Source
So, the question would be: Had the Blood Elves merely assualted, and not Tampered with the Exodar, where would it have landed? Darnassus, Hyjal, Theramore...Stormwind? It's difficult to say - But it's likely they would have come to Azeroth anyway.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
1. Read what I said about Rexxar in page 10 and give me your opinion.Yep, that's the justification for the First and Second Wars. Gul'dan and the Shadow Council just about killed Draenor, and the orcs were starving and turning upon eachother for resources and out of demon-blood charged bloodlust. So they needed a new world to live on, where they wouldn't starve or thirst to death. That's why I find Doomhammer honorable. He may have killed countless humans, but he did it out of necessity for his people. Much like Varian.
2. What did you think about Tides of Darkness?Good book. Harder to read than Christie Golden's stuff, but good. I liked Turalyon. The Doomhammer/Lothar battle was good too.
3. What happend to Garona after the skimmrish?Garrosh tried to kill her, but Jaina saved her and had her thrown into the dungeon for questioning. Garrosh tried to attack Varian for insinuating that Garrosh meant to kill her before she could talk, and then Thrall stepped in front of Varian to block Garrosh. Varian goes to question Garona and Garona's quite obviously mind-controlled. She can't even form a sentence, speaking in fragments and questions. Varian is ready to kill her there, but Jaina intervenes, so Varian demands that she be sent to Stormwind for execution after she's questioned.
Edit: 4.Would you rather follow Garrosh, or Varian?Varian, definitely, if I had to choose, but personally, neither. I don't want to be a part of either hatred.
P.S. *Aimmed at Delt* Tandred's sex was NEVER retconed, your thinking of his lady friend, Captian Wishcast or whatever her name is.He was joking as my typo calling Tandred Jaina's sister.
Post by
Dralas
What did I miss this time...
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/cyberman8/WOW18p14.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/cyberman8/WOW18p15.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/cyberman8/WOW18p16.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/cyberman8/WOW18p17.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/cyberman8/WOW18p18.jpg
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