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Varian Thread
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Post by
451455
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Post by
Skreeran
I agree with the dark now Skree. You can't ask for regret from a leader that was stupidly built, full of retcons and all, just to be the hostile trigger from the Alliance side.Huh?
I don't get it. Are you being satirical? Surely you don't actually agree with him.
Post by
451455
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Post by
229054
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Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
HiVolt
See, this is why I've finally given up on these threads. I've just lost all hope that there are many people willing to see from both sides of a story, not just only one side so blindly.
QFT
Post by
Arkham
It would be like expecting a Paladin not to heal someone just because they are a different faith.You need to read the posts you're replying to. See emphasized portion below.
Hymer isn't saying that Alexstrasza should have done differently, or that what she did is wrong, per se.
He is simply saying that her goals, and the goals of a leader of a nation such as Stormwind, may be different. Their priorities and what they value may be different.
Post by
Adamsm
Alright the paladin thing doesn't make alot of sense, but the rest of what I wrote there (page 7) goes with what he was saying.
Post by
hymer
I think the whole argument about Alexstrasza has run a bit off its tracks. Since this is a Varian thread, let's try to get back to the bit that relates to him...
I think originally, the question was whether or not Varian sees the New Horde as something differerent from the Old Horde. The short answer to that is, yes, of course he does. He doesn't see the New Horde in a positive light, but I don't see anywhere that he thinks they are still the tools of demons out to destroy Azeroth's life. I believe he may have said something along the lines of "they haven't changed", but I take that to mean "they no longer have the former excuse of their corruption; why are they still attacking and betraying us?" I'll yield to sources, though.
Could someone point us to the place where Alexstrasza says that the New Horde is allright? I'm sure we'll al be a bit wiser for seeing the exact quotes and the context. Who is she talking to?
Post by
Skreeran
Could someone point us to the place where Alexstrasza says that the New Horde is allright? I'm sure we'll al be a bit wiser for seeing the exact quotes and the context. Who is she talking to?Well, there's Golluck Rockfist, who says: "In years past, the warlock Nekros Skullcrusher abused a powerful artifact to enslave Alexstrasza and much of the red dragonflight. Zuluhed and Nekros are dead, but the debt we owe to the reds is far from repaid."It implies that the orcs are consciously and actively working to earn Alexstrasza and the Red Flight's forgiveness, and I'd assume that by the fact that he's even there, Alexstrasza understands and has at least partially forgiven. By the way she talks to my orc I'd guess she's entirely forgiven.
Her faction accepts the orcs as well.
And then there's the fact that she can practically read our minds.
Post by
229054
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Post by
hymer
Thanks both of you. Until we have something more solid to fight over, I suggest we follow Skreeran's earlier suggestion, and leave Alexstrasza for the time being.
Post by
229054
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Post by
347401
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Post by
taurenmoo812
I blame Garrosh. If we had Rhonin, Jaina, Thrall, and Varian in a room, by the end of the knight you would probably have a reasonably stable peace. Stupid red faced bastedge...
And for the record, I would take Alexstraza's word over Varian, or any human's 99.99999% of the time.
Well I don't argue that Garrosh made that situation worse, I high doubt anything would have been resolved had he not been there.
You forget, Varian already made an effort to try and kill Thrall in undercity, and so any chance he would be reasonable in that situation is higher unlikely, since reason and logic matter as much to him as someone telling ragnaros to 'cool down'.
Varian spoke the first words to Thrall and Garrosh when they entered, he made it clear he wasn't prepared to listen to reason, even with Thralls noble demeanor, well he probably wouldn't have taken a swing as Thrall, he certainly wouldn't have stayed there either, he's just to messed up in the head.
Post by
451455
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Post by
Adamsm
Orcs were never under the demons blood when they entered Azeroth, this may have been retconed, and i dont want anyone to argue with this unless they have read Tides of Darkness, the novel (This means you Adam). So the fact that the orc's were green, had red eyes and sunk into the lethargy after the 2nd war means nothing Dark? The Blood Curse(the demon taint) wasnt cleansed till Hellscream killed Mannoroth. The Old Horde, anyone with the Red Eyes, were demon tainted, and yes the Legion was no longer leading them directly (as they had been during the Draenor War), the Old Horde were still considered Demonic.
As for the Rexxar thing.... you realize he comes through after the 1st and 2nd War, as Beyond the Dark Portal occurs after Doomhammer's defeat. And seeing as once Rexxar is here, the first thing he does is goes off and becomes a hermit.....
Post by
451455
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Post by
Adamsm
.... Again, Rexxar didn't walk through the Dark Portal till the End of the 2nd War, he wasn't there during the First and 2nd wars, he didn't fight against Humans, he didn't help to raze Stormwind, he didnt do anything to increase tensions.
"You have no reason left to fight! Before, we fought to protect our people by claiming this world for them. But they are gone! We no longer need this world! With the handful left, you could find a place the humans have never gone and claim it without shedding a single drop of blood!"If you actually read that, he's telling them to STOP fighting, not boasting about what they did. Do you know why Rexxar was left behind on Draenor? Because he was against the War with the Draenei, and refused to kill them. He was banished from the Mok'thanol clan lands, called a coward and an outcast. Again, Rexxar's first move once he reaches Azeroth; realizing trying to get the current Horde to stop fighting, he goes into hiding, and at some point makes it over to Kalimdor.... there never really clear on how he gets there, and he continues to wander, killing the Legion soldiers who escaped after Hyjal, and helps Thrall fight against the revenge hate crusade of Daelin Proudmoore.
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