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Undergeared/-skilled players gearing way too easy?
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Post by
Sibling2
My concern is as stated: Undergeared and especially underskilled players can gear up way too easily in this game.
The rant is basically aimed at dps classes being way too easy to gear up. Our guild master is a warlock who has absolutely no clue about how to play his class (affliction lock who discovered DoTs at level 70), yet he has managed to get into heroic raid pugs with two other officers and gear themselves up beyond anyone else in the guild. Our guild however, has never even cleared OS25 in a guild run (don't even get me started about how bad our guild runs in Naxx10 are).
As the guild's main tank I'm pretty annoyed about this. People won't take you to raids or heroics unless you're def capped (at least 540 for raids or 535 for heroics), and healers below a certain threshold of spell power and mana regen are generally frowned upon. However when you run a heroic and you get a DK doing 700 dps, no one gives a damn, the damage is already done (bad pun not intended). I'm going to have to drag this nearly full epic, unsocketed DK doing half the dps I do as a tank, all the way through the heroic just because now I have got him saved.
At times when people ask me if they can fill a dps spot in a group I lead, I sometimes do an armory check just to see if they're anywhere near good geared. Sometimes when I turn these people down saying their gear isn't good enough they go whining "what's the point of running heroics if you've got better gear than what you get from there?" Well simply put, you're still in your quest blues/greens and I don't see a single level 78+ instance drop on you. I'm not going to gear you up without you putting any kind of effort into it.
In my paladin alt's guild people head straight into heroics as soon as they hit 80. Last night a druid in our guild turned 80 and earned the achievement "Emblem of Heroism" shortly after - in Naxxramas.
Do people no longer have any kind of sense of criticism towards the people they take into their groups?
While I understand the content we have now is easy, it shouldn't be this way.
Edit: Oh the irony. This post + my sig.
Post by
Moggit
I agree with you here. The tank and healer have to have a certain amount of gear/skill for the run to work but if you have a crappy dps then it just goes a bit slower. The only consilation is iget is that DPS are easily replaced and if im in an heroic (Hardly do them now) and theres a crappy dps then i'll just kick him and get another easily.
And when ulduar comes out these people wont be getting very far into it as it will require skill and gear.
The raids now are only really entry level that pretty much anyone can do, only problem is that the tanks and healers have to pick up the slack from failing DPS
Post by
71095
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120897
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21577
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Post by
Zorrah
Getting people (even the unskilled ones) into purples keeps them playing.
This game isn't about gearing up only the skilled ones...its about making money for Blizzard. If you make it too difficult to gear up...then people will leave = less money.
Its all about the cash.
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232114
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338937
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240282
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Post by
magik8ball
The reason people are getting these epics is because they get into naxx groups even though they are awful at playing. Naxx is an easy instance in that it has easier, but more complicated fights. A brilliant example of this is Heigan. You can two-man Heigan (I've done it), but those two people have to be skilled at the fight. All the other players that died end up getting carried to their awesome epix, no matter how good they are. Some people just don't seem to have the capacity to notice that something is wrong with their awful dps/heals/threat and never do anything about it, even when someone tells it straight to their face.
If Naxx required coordinated group effort from all 10/25 players, it would be a lot tougher than it is now.
Post by
Lorkin
Here are my thoughts:
Yes it's super easy for a DPS to just walk into Heroic Naxx just dinging 80 like an hour ago.
People should at least do a quick Armory check to see if they are rocking greens. I suggested Blizzard put an interface to inspect people in the LFG channel.
It doesn't work ALL the time, 10 man raids are very difficult to do with weak dps. 25 mans you can get away with, esp VoA and OS. For those I don't bother checking.
500 dps > 0 dps, sometimes (I know rare) its hard to find dps esp if it is a certain class. I'd bring a subpar mage for table, shaman for bloodlust, lock for summons just for their unique abilities.
The only time I think its ok to do this is if you switched spec's. I'm mainly a tank, but have respec'ed to dps to try it out. Didn't have to best gear (but no greens) but joined raids as an offspec. It's hard to go back to running Heroics esp since you have raided a lot.
An unskillful player will always be unskillful until they can learn to fix it. I've seen some classes with Best In Slot gear doing subpar dps, and I wonder how they got all that gear.
Post by
71095
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Post by
Sibling2
You're clearly an elitist. I mean, your concern should be about getting into a good raiding guild. Yet you seem more worried about that noob in epic gear. Who cares? If you don't like your guild, then find another one. It shouldn't be too difficult for you to find one.
I might not have been clear on this one. My concern is not that I don't like my guild or that I wanted to join a hardcore raiding guild, I'm actually just a pretty mediocre tank and I wouldn't want to raid "seriously", it's not my type. The real concern is just that the crappy players are getting carried through heroics and raids without putting any effort into it, such as reading boss fights and about their own skills if need be (to learn about rotations and what to use and what not to use).
That and the fact people don't really care what kind of people they carry around with them. I just hope Ulduar brings enough of a challenge so that not everyone is able to pug it from the second week it's out.
Post by
Lorkin
I might not have been clear on this one. My concern is not that I don't like my guild or that I wanted to join a hardcore raiding guild, I
'm actually just a pretty mediocre tank and I wouldn't want to raid "seriously", it's not my type.
The real concern is just that the crappy players are getting carried through heroics and raids without putting any effort into it, such as reading boss fights and about their own skills if need be (to learn about rotations and what to use and what not to use).
That and the fact people don't really care what kind of people they carry around with them. I just hope Ulduar brings enough of a challenge so that not everyone is able to pug it from the second week it's out.
So you're saying you are a mediocre tank, but you expect others to put in more effort? I think that's the pot calling the kettle black my friend.
Post by
Sibling2
By mediocre I mean that I'm not fabulous enough to tank Naxx25 just yet, but fine to tank Naxx10, VoA and OS 25 mans, which I've successfully done many times. I think that's more than competitive if comparing to a DK in a heroic doing 700 dps overall.
To sum it up: Mediocre > bad.
Post by
Jeremypwnz
Here are my thoughts:
Yes it's super easy for a DPS to just walk into Heroic Naxx just dinging 80 like an hour ago.
Did the same thing on my Mage, except it was for TK in TBC. 13th on damage meters. Of course I had like 4 crafted epics and a few 80 blues though from running those instances around 68-69. Pulling 700 DPS on trash and 550 DPS on "Loot Reaver." I liked Arcane better back then..
Post by
192154
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Post by
windstrum
When I first started playing WoW, I thought I'd rarely do dungeons and never thought I'd raid. This was mainly because I had little interest in relying on other people to advance in the game.
I still think there should be tougher solo challenges, more emphasis on end-game solo play. Running dailies and then sitting around Dal waiting for your raid/instance/pug to gather up isn't much fun for anyone.
I think the game the way it is, currently relies far too much on people forming groups for enjoyment. I know while levelling, I often won't join a guild until very deep into the game.
A more balanced game - balanced between group and solo play - should yield a situation where you always have an option if groups are getting you down.
I'm all for making friends online, but I've had a remarkably enjoyable time playing wow when I wasn't "guilded".
Post by
324868
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Post by
Aldafool3345
You could just gquit and look for another guild. If your a serious raider then just gquit and find some other guild. You pretty much proved your point of how horrible the guild you are in anyway... so ya.
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