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Trolling and 'fail' behaviour - what happens IRL?
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Post by
Squishalot
So, there was a recent event on the Paladin forums that got me thinking.
Some fellow came along and posted the most horrible Holy/Prot spec, with the strangest gear choices (all ToC/IC gear, except for the ilvl200 trinkets), with the intention to create a Holy avoidance-based Consecratidin. Oh, and his English sucked as well.
One page of some thinly veiled flaming (and some high-powered flaming) about how he was an idiot, how his English sucked, that he needed to learn to play/spell/write/read/etc, he chucked a dummy spit, deleted his posts and asked the mods to blow his thread up. (It's worth noting - the overt flamers weren't regulars, the regulars in the Pally forum were more polite about it, but obviously critical.)
So it occured to me - what's going through this kid's mind in real life? He goes online with what he thinks is a good idea, and spends the next 12 hours reading post after post telling him he's an idiot. Is that any different to playground bullying? (Other than the fact that the criticism is justified.) What's this guy going to think about his life now? Is his self-esteem now shot to pieces? Or have they saved him from being sucked into the World of Warcraft and done him a lifetime service?
TL;DR - after you flame someone, have you ever considered what happens to them IRL?
Post by
80642
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Just logged on and was gonna move to my thread when I saw this.
He goes online with what he thinks is a good idea,
That's an assumption on your part. But let's just stick with it. So he does think this is a good idea, which means he thinks he knows enough about the game to be making judgments like that. But if he really knew that much, he would have known what the downfalls of said build would be.
In short, don't put forth an idea if you're not willing to take responsibility for it.
Is his self-esteem now shot to pieces?
He had too much self-esteem to begin with if he considered himself knowledgeable in a field he is clearly not.
Post by
374287
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
TheMediator
True, but at the same time there's no good reason to be a jerk.
False, if being a jerk is what it takes to make someone wise up to their own ignorance, so be it, flame him as hard as you can.
My older brother used to be a huge, massive fatty. My younger brother and I harassed him enough that he eventually started getting into shape, then started going to the gym, and now he's got some nice muscles. I can only hope that trolling someone online hard enough makes them hate their own foolish enough that they realize they need to wise up. However, since I can't bust into their bedroom at night and yell at them while they are in bed that they're a fool, I probably can't help them improve themselves as much as my younger brother and I were able to help my older brother improve himself.
Post by
Squishalot
That's an assumption on your part.
Yes, it is. I'm assuming that he's actually a well-meaning'd individual, as opposed to a troll.
Post by
374287
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
True, but at the same time there's no good reason to be a jerk.
False, if being a jerk is what it takes to make someone wise up to their own ignorance, so be it, flame him as hard as you can.
My older brother used to be a huge, massive fatty. My younger brother and I harassed him enough that he eventually started getting into shape, then started going to the gym, and now he's got some nice muscles. I can only hope that trolling someone online hard enough makes them hate their own foolish enough that they realize they need to wise up. However, since I can't bust into their bedroom at night and yell at them while they are in bed that they're a fool, I probably can't help them improve themselves as much as my younger brother and I were able to help my older brother improve himself.
You are truely a inspirational example of helping humanity.
Post by
TheMediator
You are truely a inspirational example of helping humanity.
Thanks. Take enough small steps, and eventually you'll cover a large distance, that's how I look at it.
Post by
HiVolt
I don't think that the kid
needed
to be flamed.
Think about it. I know I have had plenty of hair-brained ideas about an awesome spec. Then after a bit of testing with green gear(while weighing the difference if the gear would have been better), I've found that the spec was to put it lightly, less than perfect. Many of you have probably done the same thing as me.
With that said, the only difference here is that he likely didn't test his experiment before posting a thread about it. All that was needed from the feedback was him to be shown the errors that he had made. If he had taken those posts into consideration, and then decided his idea would still have worked, he would have tested it. Then he would have found out that those who tried to instruct him otherwise were right, and he would have likely moved on to something more practical.
In this instance, the flaming is unnecessary, and I can't understand where it would be absolutely necessary to do so in a situation like this.
Whether he found out his idea was a bad one through the forums, or through experimentation, he still would have found out.
Now this of course is going off of the idea that he had enough common sense to realize the error when it was staring him in the face. If he had tested it and still found that it was a good idea, even when it wasn't, then the post could just easily be ignored. The player could be written off as a bad player, and there would be no reason to take the matter further. He would only be hurting himself in the situation, and no one else.
Now, I realize that there is a difference with real-life matters and what I'm talking about here. If it takes ridicule to get someone to wise up to an
actual
problem, then it is fine. However, on the matters of sharing ideas, asking for feedback on the aforementioned idea, and debating opinions: flaming is not necessary, nor is it productive for the situation.
*Braces self for disagreement and semantics over wording*
Post by
484925
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
No quibbles over semantics, just to clarify. From what I could tell from most of the gibberish, he stopped playing back in Vanilla and was coming back. He hadn't even installed/updated the game yet (according to his post) before coming onto the forums to exhort the benefits of his spec, without trying it out.
In hindsight, I should probably have pointed out the obvious - Consecration, like all AoE spells, is being capped at 10x damage come 3.3.
Post by
304510
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
273605
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
388951
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
304510
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
moocow
There's never any reason to flame anyone. A polite "you're wrong because xyz" should point them in the right direction - if not, they're not going to listen to whatever you say anyway. And if it's a troll, you're just giving them what they want. Harassment only makes people feel bad and avoid the abusers.
And yes, I've met several people in-game who wouldn't go on the forums because they'd get flamed.
Post by
Squishalot
A polite "you're wrong because xyz" should point them in the right direction - if not, they're not going to listen to whatever you say anyway.
That was the approach of the first couple of replies. He quoted them and told them that they were wrong, and why his method was better (using a flawed argument), with no sources and no math to back it up. (See sig.)
Post by
Lecks
That was the approach of the first couple of replies. He quoted them and told them that they were wrong, and why his method was better (using a flawed argument), with no sources and no math to back it up. (See sig.)
That's important information, it should've been in the OP.
To answer the question in the OP.
I've been flamed many a times in the past because I made baseless claims and refused to listen to other people. But because of being flamed so many times (and yes, it affected my self-esteem, which is a good thing) I learned not to take myself too seriously and learned to listen to other people and take what they say into consideration.
It also improved my grammar dramatically.
It may sting a bit, but flaming
can
help people.
Post by
148723
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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