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Tree overhealing
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Post by
23709
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Post by
299044
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Post by
Celdhyrean
The way our healing works means we will overheal a lot : we set up hots in advance of the incoming damage so that there's no need to ramp up when the damage actually hits. And since mana isn't a problem, we end up hotting a lot more than those who really need it at any point in a fight, thus lots of overheal.
It's the same as paladins who are healing a tank with GH's wether he is actually getting hit or dodges it all.
Post by
292710
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Post by
23709
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Post by
slasher0161
From the perspective of a holy paladin who also moonlights on a tree druid, if the people stay alive and your mana lasts the distance meters are pretty redundant (unless someone basicly afk'd the fight).
Post by
curlymon
Only time to EVER look at overhealing is if a healer is running out of mana, Or if you are trying to see if you have leeway to move a healer over to a dps spot in your raid for a specific fight.
I have a feeling the overhealing on hots was in response to issues with Incinerate Flesh on the Lord J fight.
Post by
Heckler
When HoTs didn't count towards overheal on a full target, we had very little overhealing on the meters, but in reality, this was just a gimmick anyways. It meant very little in terms of your performance then, just as it does now. It could easily be argued that a raid healing druid wants more overheal, because this is proof that they're HoT uptime is high, which means you're acting like the cushion a raid healing druid should be.
Overheal is a useful statistic for "nuke" heals... if you can expand your recount parse and a vast majority of your overheal is from Nourish, then maybe you're doing something "wrong" -- but it won't be, it will be all HoT ticks at 100%, HoT's are premptive by nature; a HoT overhealing simply means you're doing your job properly.
Post by
toastmaster7727
In my experiences, HoTs aren't my top overhealing spells. It's usually Lifebloom and Nourish. If your HoTing up a tank, you'd be surprised how much effective healing comes from Rejuv and Regrowth. It's when you start spamming single Lifebloom ticks at low-HP dps that your overhealing shoots up.
Solution: Use more instant heals like Wild Growth, Nourish, and Swiftmend to heal dps. I would compare the other druids use of spells to yours and see what the difference is. I would also get Recount addon to record what your top overhealing spell is and try to eliminate it. More overhealing is less mana efficiency.
Post by
Heckler
Concerning Lifebloom, if it's the Bloom thats topping your overheal, then i would say that "might" be an issue, but since there is a mana benefit to letting it pop, I would say it's not that useful of a statistic. Concerning Nourish, if this is topping your overheal, then you probably could deduce that you are doing something "wrong."
Nourish overheal is 100% wasted mana, it provides no benefit and there's not a lot of reason to do it. Odds are, any Nourish that overheals someone was likely unnecessary (the HoTs probably would have done the job if you'd have let them). Maybe in a max-hps rotation on a tank that is in danger of being 2-shotted this isn't true, but I think Nourish is one of the rare occasions where Overheal is pretty good at pointing out an "error" for druids. I could definitely be wrong, however.
Post by
327123
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23709
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Post by
Celdhyrean
You can say "over-healing doesn't matter..." all you want, but
stupid
raid-leaders choose who attends by the meters.Fixed.
I'm the main raid leader in our guild and i haven't checked an overhealing meters in ages, with the exception of the recent druid change because i was wondering if i would be able to catch up on the paladins overhealing or not (i did and it made me smile more than indicate anything wrong).
(not quite true, i also checked up a paladin on a recent Koralon pug whom i found low on the healing meter, but since he was very high on the overhealing everything was actually normal)
People using overhealing and healing meters without thinking as an indication of healers capabilities are just stupid people unable to take into account how different healing mecanics and roles impact ones position on the meters.
Post by
260787
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Post by
MegaVolt
People using overhealing and healing meters without thinking as an indication of healers capabilities are just stupid people unable to take into account how different healing mecanics and roles impact ones position on the meters.
QFT. You cannot treat healing meters the same as DPS meters.
That would be cool. I wonder how the "over-DPS" tab would look like ;)
About overhealing: HoTs always heal, no matter if there is incoming damage or not. That's why a Druid must have high overheal in encounters without massive raid damage. I often have like 85% overheal in fights where there is only occasional raid damage (so that you have to keep the HoTs ticking all the time since you never know when your raid will take that hit).
But that doesn't matter as long as the HoTs are up when the damage comes. That's what you are there for.
The only time overheal is relevant is when a healer runs out of mana.
Post by
404185
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Post by
skribs
While meters aren't that reliable of a test of healing, if you run 10-mans with 3 healers, and have one healer typically at 55-60% of the healing, and are wiping on bosses - you need to look at what the other 2 are doing.
Similarly - with overheals - are your effective heals down because of it? E.g. a paladin can spam FoL on himself on Patchwerk and end up with 0 effective heals but several K HPS in overheals - this is an extreme example but its trying to get the point across. Now, if that's due to you HoTing everyone up and then being undercut by direct heals - that's fine, you're supposed to HoT as a druid and if your HoTs are not ticking for effective heals that just means you've got good healers. However, start talking to the other healers about ways to spread out the heals instead of having everyone burst-heal one target when he only needs 1 person to heal him.
For example, I dont have too much experience resto in LK (played other toons) but I did in TBC. I would never raid heal in our 10-man runs, because the priest and paladin we had going with us were so fast that I would never get a tick unless it was on the MT (in fact, on random-target fights like Shade of Aran, I would just DPS because by the time I HoTed his current target, they'd be topped off and he'd be on to the next one).
However, in 25's (still up against multiple fast-clicking direct healers) I learned a trick - I'd HoT the people on medium health, instead of those on low health. I knew the other healers would prioritize low before medium, so it gave me some time to get some ticks in, and possibly buffer those people back up by itself. Medium health isn't as critical as low, but it still makes it much more likely to be gibbed than full health - and they need healing too. So it wasn't just about getting ticks up on the meters, it was about getting some heals in that actually do something.
So yeah - if you are overhealing a lot because someone has a slightly faster cast, or because your HoTs are ticking - that's fine. If you overheal a lot because the tank has such high chance to avoid damage - that's fine too. If you overheal a lot because you're spamming more than you should and burning your mana, or because you're always healing the wrong target - that's not good and needs to be addressed. But a blanket statement like "I have high overheals is this bad?" cannot be addressed without more info.
Post by
Kibbles
Overhealing is OK if you don't run OOM
And if the priests and the paladins are actually better than you three then they deserve to be there.
If not the GM is stupid.
Post by
MegaVolt
Overhealing is OK if you don't run OOM
And if the priests and the paladins are actually better than you three then they deserve to be there.
If not the GM is stupid.
If he pays that much attention to overheal then am I right to assume that the 3 Druids were chosen because they had very low overheal before the change?
Just tell him that
nothing
changed, just the display. Your real overheal is exactly the same as it was before.
That being said: Since you were running with 3 Druids before the change I'd guess that your GM is just stupid. Druids aren't really that awesome on tank healing but they are the best (well, maybe with holy Priests) for raid healing. He should run with a balanced team: A disc Priest or a Paladin on the tank, a holy Priest or a Druid on the raid and the third spot according to the encounter, either a second tank healer or an additional raid healer. Shamans are perfect for this spot since they can do both quite well.
My personal favorite healing setup for 10mans is: 1 Paladin, 1 Shaman, 1 Druid.
Post by
windstrum
You can say "over-healing doesn't matter..." all you want, but raid-leaders choose who attends by the meters. Our guilds ten-man team went from three druids to two priests and a shaman the week after the meters changed. It was that fast. One look at the meters and we were out. Luckily, they haven't replaced us in 25 yet, but it's only a matter of collecting enough healers to replace the over-healing druids.
And by the way, none of us (druids) ever goes oom.
Your raid leaders are far more stupid than any I've come across, including PuGs.
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