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Too much Aggro
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Post by
368809
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Post by
156946
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Post by
GenXCub
If you're pulling aggro off every single tank... I have to think it's not the tank. I mean, I'm sure there are threat monster tanks who overgear the heroics and you can't pull the aggro there, but average guys who are still getting used to heroic tanking can't run with that.
Also, if you can, do PS then IT so that Rage of Rivendare will make the IT do more damage.
Post by
368809
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Post by
334662
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Post by
anywherenotes
2.5k dps shouldn't be enough to pull from a tank, even if you don't have points lowering your threat.
Make sure you check you're not in frost presence.
Also make sure to give some time for a tank to build up agro. Some tanks can grab a lot from beginning, but some don't. I don't believe it's a class issue, since I've seen all classes grab a ton of agro from start, and all same classes build up agro. It really depends on the person playing the game.
If you're getting tanks that need to build agro, what helps me is to look at the omen, and once a tank has over 10k, it's usually safe to start dps, provided you keep checking omen.
Gear doesn't mean the tank will grab agro faster than lowered-geared toon, do not be confused. Yes it's easier to generate more agro with better gear, but when talking agro, most of it is skill or priority between agro/survivability.
It's possible to have a fully decked out t7.5 tanks who normally get MD's so they aren't used to building up tons of agro from the start.
(My guess is if it's a fully t8 geared tank than at this point they are best tank on server, and good luck finding one for a heroic, if you do find one, you can go all out :)
Post by
186549
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Post by
368809
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Post by
anywherenotes
I use Blood Presence most of the time, only using frost when the tank dies. Also, I always wait till the tank hits the target two or three times before attacking. I will from now on wait longer then start my rotation with PS-IT. Again, thanks for all the great information.
0/13/58
Dyndra 80 Unholy DK - Mal'Ganis
Be careful about waiting for a certain number of hits.
Tanks aren't usually hit/expertise capped, so those few hits could all be misses/parries (no tank is parry capped - dodge yes, but not parry).
Look at omen.
Lets say tank warrior did his heroic throw and missed. The mobs will still run at him, but he'll have 0 agro, they just noticed him. If you even auto-attack at that point, mob will attack you. Tank will have to start pulling agro from you, thus spending less time building agro on other mobs around him. It's a slippery slope downhill from than on.
I advise looking at omen over how many abilities tank used.
Post by
Aris
dont need to change your spec to gimp your potential. just dont push your buttons so fast. watch the threat meter. stay below the tanks threat.
Post by
Deathadder99
I cant understand this. I'm a tank, once I've laid DnD nothing can get aggro off me. I comfortably hold aggro off ulduar geared DPSers and my gear isn't great... I've even out- threated other tanks and end up MTing with worse gear than them, just because i push out so much TPS.
Subversion isnt necessary imo. Just looks like you need better tanks who know their stuff.
Post by
341986
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Post by
368809
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Post by
Aleanos
What would be a good DPS to start running 10-man Naxx? Is 2.5K good enough?
2.5k dps is perfectly acceptable for Naxx, although some people may insist that you pull >3.5k (it depends alot on your server/how smart the people leading the group are).
I've seen 1.5k dpsers in naxx 10 for instance, it really depends alot on how much the group is willing to carry you, but imo, if you can pull 2.5k, you're ready.
About that druid tank, if you even gave him a head start I'm suprised you pulled aggro (and him kicking you right after). Many people argue "It's the tanks fault" or "It's the dpsers fault" when they pull aggro.
Personally I think that undless there's a large gear difference between the dpser and the tank, and the dps isn't hitting the assigned target, it's the tanks job to maintain aggro and consequently their fault is a dps pulls aggro.
If the tank cannot produce ample threat for his/her gear level they're doing a
bad job
.
Post by
368809
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Post by
146010
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Post by
Infleto
I use Blood Presence most of the time, only using frost when the tank dies. Also, I always wait till the tank hits the target two or three times before attacking. I will from now on wait longer then start my rotation with PS-IT. Again, thanks for all the great information.
0/13/58
Dyndra 80 Unholy DK - Mal'Ganis
Be careful about waiting for a certain number of hits.
Tanks aren't usually hit/expertise capped, so those few hits could all be misses/parries (no tank is parry capped - dodge yes, but not parry).
Look at omen.
Lets say tank warrior did his heroic throw and missed. The mobs will still run at him, but he'll have 0 agro, they just noticed him. If you even auto-attack at that point, mob will attack you. Tank will have to start pulling agro from you, thus spending less time building agro on other mobs around him. It's a slippery slope downhill from than on.
I advise looking at omen over how many abilities tank used.
This!
DPS's threat is DPS's responsibility.
Providing enough threat so DPS can drop the boss before the healers go OOM is the Tanks responsibility.
Your tank may have needed to react to something and in doing so messed up his rotation, There may have been wipe preventing reasons why he had it do it. this is why you need to keep a eye on your threat.
Now if your tank is under geared or just fails at being a tank then you need to find a nother one. But, your threat is still your threat bad tank or not.
At any rate, look at what most people say when we are talking about aggro. It is always "if you pull aggro" aka "you pull aggro". We do not say "the tank lost aggro". Why? Because, you control your DPS thus if you pull aggro.
Now it is the tanks job to put out enough threat to drop the boss in time. Yet, the tank only fails at this when there is a wipe.
Did you wipe do to the tank dragging out the fight making the healers go OOM? If not, cut back on your DPS and the boss will still go down.
Post by
368809
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Post by
Infleto
All I did was go in the instance (Nexus (H)), saw the healer and rogue standing by the entrance, and then saw the tank charge the target. It was only me and the tank attacking as no one was ready yet. We did not even have our fifth guy in the instance when he attacked. The only reason that I helped is because I did not want the tank to solo the target and die before anyone else was ready.
By the way, what do you mean by "wipe"? I used PS-IT-SS (7+k crit). That is when I pulled aggro, and he quit on the target. The target was down 10+k hp before I got over there to even hit him once.
My belief is that he just failed as a tank, especially since he did not even wait for everyone to be in there before starting the fight. And, no, the target did not attack him first. He charged the target.
0/13/58
Dyndra 80 Unholy DK - Mal'Ganis
Yes, he fails then.
He was problem new to tanking or, new to instances in general. Noob tanks are not bad tanks. They are just noobs! Help them.
I ran into a problem with 2 healers I kept PUGing with they where the only healer at my level/gear rang online when I was. I started a "adopt a healer program" and ran with them every time. I helped them get gear and helped them fix there healing troubles. The biggest one was they would burn up there mana tiring to heal the dps who tries to solo a mob and me.
If you yank it you tank it. the healer will not heal you and you will die then I will pick it up.
But this is not your case. Just help noob tanks out. If they do not head your advise find another tank to run with.
Post by
Aleanos
But this is not your case. Just help noob tanks out. If they do not head your advise find another tank to run with.
I strongly disagree here.
It shouldn't be of any of his/hers concern to give advice to a person playing another class, being in another guild and someone you dont know. The tank signed up to tank a Heroic so he/she ought to be capable of fulfilling their role.
In Dyndra's case the tank is a "bad" tank because he/she acted in a most childish manner and kicked Dyndra without warning. I'm also willing to bet that if Dynra were to attempt to speak with the tank that he/she ought to improve the tps output the tank would bluntly refuse.
In my eyes a "Noob" is a person who does the wrong thing without knowing the proper way but thinking their way is the
only
and correct way, without listening to other people's opinions.
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