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Threat reduction
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Post by
94411
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Post by
255906
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Post by
187668
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Post by
Fingulfin
Helpful? Yes. Necessary? No.
With enough gear, you can catch up (threat wise) to almost any tank... However, once you soulshatter there should be no way for you to pass any tank worth his salt unless the battle goes on for an insanely long time.
Post by
255906
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Post by
Fingulfin
You cannot calculate threat into a simcraft accurately. Every tank will be putting out different TPS, thus is it impossible to tell when you are going to have to soulshatter.
As a general rule, if you end up almost pulling aggro off a tank AFTER Shattering, you NEED to slow down on DPS. Its sad, however your group is only as good as it's tank. If your tank can't keep threat, you outgear him (or he is just bad). If you outgear him, you have no choice but to lower your DPS to his gear level.
My comment was posted toward an IDEAL situation; you and the tank are more or less equally geared (or the tank has more gear than you), and you both know how to play your class properly. You can (and probably WILL) catch up to the tank in threat somewhere between 300k and 500k Threat, at which point in time you should Shatter. This will give your tank a 150-250k threat lead, which you should NOT catch up to again.
Post by
255906
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Post by
asakawa
hand of salvation
is good. ask your favourite pally for it.
overall though, i disagree with mEil. tank threat is really good these days and an equally geared tank should be impossible to catch on a straight tank and spank fight. you say you can do 5.7k on patchy, well if a tank didn't use any high threat abilities at all they would still only need to hit 2.7k dps themselves to out threat you... and tanks
do
use lots of high threat abilities.
my point is that, yes 2.7k is good dps for a tank but a tank with equal gear to a dps doing 5.7k will be hitting that on recount and several of the abilities used will generate more threat than damage.
i suppose i'm saying that it's your tanks which you said we shouldn't tell you, so sorry about that. i have a tank, equal geared players don't catch me on threat.
Post by
255906
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Post by
asakawa
Well, in 25mans I'm staying at around 120% most of the time. (As close to 130% I dare)
Not all figths, but especially the ones that need movement.
ah, good point, i missed that.
i think the point is that, in those fights, the devs are challenging ranged DPSers to manage their threat. that's one of the challenges of that fight. they're rare enough that no efforts should be taken to talent for them you just have to be aware that it's an aspect of the encounter and manage your threat/dps accordingly.
in this, i am entirely agreeing with you (and, apparently, fin O.o)
Post by
255906
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Post by
WoWTheoryCraft
If you have to hold back on your DPS after Soulshatter, then you did it too early.
If you finish the fight with much less than 130% threat then you did it too late.
Post by
358761
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Post by
255906
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Post by
WoWTheoryCraft
Is there such thing as doing it too late? As long as you time it right enough and don't have to slow down on DPS at all, isnt it all good? Why do i have to be near 130% at the end of the fight?
If you don't have to slow down your DPS at any time, why Soulshatter at all?
Post by
255906
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Post by
WoWTheoryCraft
If you're min/maxing on a fight where you know you'll have to Soulshatter then the ideal scenario is:
Manage your threat -> Soulshatter -> All out nuke -> Finish the fight with just under 130% threat
Every bit of damage you can squeeze in before you Soulshatter gives you extra threat headroom after, but it's only useful if you use it by ending the fight at ~130% threat.
Post by
358761
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Post by
ballagarba
Honestly, in a 25-man raid environment i reckon you'd at least have one rogue and a hunter doing
Tricks of the Trade
and
Misdirection
, in my opinion you shouldn't even stand a chance in hell. But that's 25-man...
I, personally would never spec into threat reduction unless it was the only way to get further down the tree or that talent had some other benefits.
Post by
187668
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