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The Taurajo Massace
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Post by
Gone
Lol how do you call Varian a warmonger and stick up for Garrosh in the same sentance? I mean hell at least Varian
sometimes
does the right thing regarding members of the Horde, letting Saurfang take his sons body from ICC and such, if that was Garrosh and it was an a member of the Alliance, he would have probobly pitched the body off the edge of the citidel.
And what in !@#$s name has Tyrande ever done to a member of the oposite faction?
Post by
4dehorde
Varian is a monster because he wants to do to the Horde what Hitler did to the jews. Mass genocide and the like is what he wants, and screw his own people. Look at all the homeless and hungry people in Westfall. He cares more about feeding his lust for war than his own people. He had been planning the war for years. Anyone who so willingly engages in genocide is not a hero. Varian Wyrnn is a monster. One good deed does not make up for a lifetime of wickedness.
Tyrande is a physcopath. When the orcs showed up in Ashenvale, looking to cut down some trees to build a new home for their people, she and her kin deemed them as monsters with no respect for life and proceeded to attack them. Yeah, she has done nothing wrong.
No matter what people claim, Taurajo was not a military outpost, it was a small peaceful hunter's camp that trained visitors from time to time. The real Horde base in the region was the Crossroads. Hawthorne had good intentions and I repspect him for it, but the Alliance was just plain stupid to put thieves and murderers fresh from jail in their army. Of course they returned to their old ways, disobeyed the general's orders, killed as many as they could, and burned the town to the ground while looting it. A horrendous war crime was conducted at Taurajo and Alliance supporters need to aknowledge it. Pretending it didn't happen or downplaying it only makes the Alliance look worse.
For anyone who resorts to petty name calling, go ahead. Sticks and stones. It just proves you are intolerant individuals.
Post by
470415
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
oneforthemoney
You failed to address the matter 4dehorde that Taurajo was in the middle of the path to Mulgore. It doesn't matter if it was military or not, it could be converted into one if merely left alone and that would be a terrible miscalculation on the Alliance's part if they merely left it be.
He had been planning the war for years
Of course he had been planning the war for years, it was an inevitable result from decades of strained relations between two massive factions. The war had been in the making long before he was king again. Almost half the factions that make up the horde are either newcomers to Azeroth whose first contact consisted of mass invasion and razing of cities or ancestral enemies like the trolls.
On the matter of genocide the Forsaken's entire war cry is 'death to the living'. Genocide has never been the point of the Alliance, even after the second war in which the Horde ravaged Azeroth and its kingdoms again they merely put them in internment camps. Not the ideal solution admittedly but the best one available as the dark portal was closed and left to their own devices the Horde had not exactly been exemplary considering that it was, again, the Second War!
Post by
Monday
No matter what people claim, Taurajo was not a military outpost, it was a small peaceful hunter's camp that trained visitors from time to time.
It was a supply line and training center, along with being right on the border to Mulgore. That's a prime military target.
Post by
576272
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
I am now going to list all of the war crimes I can think of committed by the Horde and Alliance during the Cataclysm War:
Horde:
Using the Blight on Gilneas
Attacking refugee Gilnean ships (see:
here
)
Bombing druids in Stonetalon
The Sludge Fields in Hillsbrad
Alliance:
The sacking of Taurajo
The Shatterspear Massacre
The "No Witnesses" attack on the Goblins
Both sides have those who are brutal and merciless in their treatment of the other. Both sides also has those who are compassionate and kind.
Post by
4dehorde
Horde:
Using the Blight on Gilneas
Attacking refugee Gilnean ships (see: here)
Bombing druids in Stonetalon
The Sludge Fields in Hillsbrad
Alliance:
The sacking of Taurajo
The Shatterspear Massacre
The "No Witnesses" attack on the Goblins
Both sides have those who are brutal and merciless in their treatment of the other. Both sides also has those who are compassionate and kind.
You left out the capture of Thrall. He was on his way to lend his powerful abilities to the Earthen Ring, but Varian just had to have him as a prisoner. The Alliance put the Horde, themselves, and all of Azeroth in danger with their recklessness. Just imagine what would have happened, all the chaos that would've ensued, had Thrall not been rescued.
You failed to address the matter 4dehorde that Taurajo was in the middle of the path to Mulgore. It doesn't matter if it was military or not, it could be converted into one if merely left alone and that would be a terrible miscalculation on the Alliance's part if they merely left it be
Of course he had been planning the war for years, it was an inevitable result from decades of strained relations between two massive factions. The war had been in the making long before he was king again. Almost half the factions that make up the horde are either newcomers to Azeroth whose first contact consisted of mass invasion and razing of cities or ancestral enemies like the trolls.
On the matter of genocide the Forsaken's entire war cry is 'death to the living'. Genocide has never been the point of the Alliance, even after the second war in which the Horde ravaged Azeroth and its kingdoms again they merely put them in internment camps. Not the ideal solution admittedly but the best one available as the dark portal was closed and left to their own devices the Horde had not exactly been exemplary considering that it was, again, the Second War!
The Alliance could have destroyed Taurajo without trying to butcher everyone who lived there. There is no excuse for massacre, regardless of the reasons. Varian had been planning to genocide all life in the Horde for years. He is a very troubled individual who is lost to his madness. And really? I have yet to see the Forsaken try to genocide anyone. They are trying to destroy and remove humanity from their lands, not all humans in general. On the contrary, Varian made himself quite clear at Undercity. He is a genocidal maniac who needs to answer for his crimes. With him in command , the Alliance has become the very evil it depicts the Horde as.
This boils my blood. Ashenvale is Kaldorei forest, which means the Horde had no right to be there in the first place, and less right to be cutting down those trees.
She has done nothing wrong. It's her people's land, and she is defending it like a proper leader.
You really need to see things from the Horde POV. They just arrived in Kalimdor and they needed to make shelters for their friends and family. They see a forest full of huge trees. What do you expect them to do? Leave the forest and make homes out of dry dirt in the Barrens? No, the orcs did what they had to do for their countrymen and women. Tyrande is a sick menace for murdering people for wanting a better life and providing for their own. She could have opened diplomatic relations with the newcomers, but instead she chose bloodshed, like a barbarian savage.
I know the Horde has done some wrong, but people need to admit the Alliance really is no better. With Varian's genocidal aggression and Tyrande's mad zealotry, the Alliance can appear to Hordes and neutrals as a rather nasty lot.
Post by
355559
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
You left out the capture of Thrall. He was on his way to lend his powerful abilities to the Earthen Ring, but Varian just had to have him as a prisoner. The Alliance put the Horde, themselves, and all of Azeroth in danger with their recklessness. Just imagine what would have happened, all the chaos that would've ensued, had Thrall not been rescued.Capturing an enemy leader is not a war crime. Yes, it could have ended up doing harm to both sides, but that doesn't make it a crime. Were Garrosh to capture Malfurion, it could lead to problems on Azeroth, but he's the leader of an enemy faction, and trying to capture the enemy's leader is something you do in war.
The Alliance could have destroyed Taurajo without trying to butcher everyone who lived there. There is no excuse for massacre, regardless of the reasons. Varian had been planning to genocide all life in the Horde for years. He is a very troubled individual who is lost to his madness. And really? I have yet to see the Forsaken try to genocide anyone. They are trying to destroy and remove humanity from their lands, not all humans in general. On the contrary, Varian made himself quite clear at Undercity. He is a genocidal maniac who needs to answer for his crimes. With him in command , the Alliance has become the very evil it depicts the Horde as.If that were true, why did he choose to meet with Thrall not once, but twice. On one occasion, he was even on track to agreeing to trade supplies to ease tensions in Ashenvale.
He chose to let Saurfang claim his son's body, which is not what the madman you portray Varian as would do.
There's only one incident I can think of in which Varian indicated he might be willing to eradicate the orcs, and that was in the Undercity, and only if you read between the lines. Based on everything I've read, it seems to me that he does not trust the orcs, and he doesn't think they should be able to operate unchecked, but he does not seem to indicate that he wants to annihilate the orcs.
Contrast that to Garrosh's "But surely you cannot think that those children were born into innocence? They would have grown up and taken arms against us!" and Sylvanas' "At last, Arthas, you will pay for what you have done. The humans who spawned such as you will be slaughtered. Your Scourge shall be stopped in their tracks. You will no longer be able to hide behind your armies of mindless undead puppets. And we will grace you with the same mercy and compassion you showed us." and it would seem the Horde leaders are much more prone to genocidal thinking.
The Alliance certainly have their own bad apples, like Justin Bartlett, but Varian, while passionate, is not beyond reason.
Post by
Monday
I have yet to see the Forsaken try to genocide anyone.
Oh God, I nearly died laughing. The Forsaken have said numerous times they plan on wiping out all of humanity, and all the living if they can. Ever heard of the Royal Apothecary Society?
You really need to see things from the Horde POV.
You mean Grom-soon-to-be-fel-orc's point of view?
The Alliance could have destroyed Taurajo without trying to butcher everyone who lived there. There is no excuse for massacre, regardless of the reasons.
There's a term used in war called "collateral damage." It's a sad side effect, but not much can get done without it. That's why everybody tries to avoid war.
You left out the capture of Thrall. He was on his way to lend his powerful abilities to the Earthen Ring, but Varian just had to have him as a prisoner. The Alliance put the Horde, themselves, and all of Azeroth in danger with their recklessness. Just imagine what would have happened, all the chaos that would've ensued, had Thrall not been rescued.
Because everybody totally knew the Cataclysm was coming.
They are trying to destroy and remove humanity from their lands
And yet it isn't really their land. The Scarlet Crusade were all Lordaeronians who are still alive and want their land back, yet they are slaughtered at every turn by the Forsaken.
He is a genocidal maniac who needs to answer for his crimes. With him in command , the Alliance has become the very evil it depicts the Horde as.
Garrosh says hi.
Also, I dare you to counter this with logical arguments, backed up by tactics, not "cry cry I hate teh alliancez nubs they are evilz bastards."
Post by
Behelich
I promised I'd stay out of it, but...
I have yet to see the Forsaken try to genocide anyone.
Southshore?
They are trying to destroy and remove humanity from their lands, not all humans in general
What is this I don't even.
Post by
Gone
Tyrande is a physcopath. When the orcs showed up in Ashenvale, looking to cut down some trees to build a new home for their people, she and her kin deemed them as monsters with no respect for life and proceeded to attack them. Yeah, she has done nothing wrong.
Defending her peoples land? WHAT A MONSTER
^ Sarcasim
Varian is a monster because he wants to do to the Horde what Hitler did to the jews. Mass genocide and the like is what he wants, and screw his own people
Ummm, when? I mean Varian talks a big game about how the Horde are all monsters and all, his hatred is well known. But has he ever acted on it? Has he taken his army and marched them over to Ogrimar? No. I mean the closest he ever came was when he "declared war" in undercity after the whole Wrathgate incident, but nothing ever came from that, hostilities didnt start untill Cataclysm after Garrosh was made Warchief and the full blown hostilities started.
They are trying to destroy and remove humanity from their lands, not all humans in general.
"Their lands"? The land that the Forsaken claim as their own are Human and Elf lands, I was always willing to let that slide because the humans and elfs who lived there were all killed during the Scourge invasion of Azeroth, but Gilneaus was a neutral country that they invaded.
There's only one incident I can think of in which Varian indicated he might be willing to eradicate the orcs, and that was in the Undercity, and only if you read between the lines. Based on everything I've read, it seems to me that he does not trust the orcs, and he doesn't think they should be able to operate unchecked, but he does not seem to indicate that he wants to annihilate the orcs.
Dont forget Lorderan was his childhood home after Stormwind was destroyed (by orcs) and his father was killed (by an orc), so when he went there and saw what the Forsaken had done to it, saw all these Frankenstein experiments made up of human body parts, vials of a new plague they were creating, ect. He was well within his rights to get pissed.
Post by
Monday
hostilities didnt start untill Cataclysm after Garrosh was made Warchief and the full blown hostilities started.
To be fair, it did start in ICC with the Gunship battle.
Dont forget Lorderan was his childhood home after Stormwind was destroyed (by orcs) and his father was killed (by an orc)
He was also enslaved by an orc.
Post by
Behelich
To be fair, it did start in ICC with the Gunship battle.
And, on the Alliance side, King Varian proved to be a complete monster, didn't he?
Post by
Monday
To be fair, it did start in ICC with the Gunship battle.
And, on the Alliance side, King Varian proved to be a complete monster, didn't he?
Like, totally man.
No seriously, that was just nitpicking. I do honestly think both Garrosh and Varian were being really, really stupid to fight while literally
storming the inner gates of Icecrown Citadel
. Seems pretty dumb to me.
Post by
Gone
To be fair, it did start in ICC with the Gunship battle.
Well that seemed more like a skirmish than the start of the full blown war that we find ourselfs in now.
No seriously, that was just nitpicking. I do honestly think both Garrosh and Varian were being really, really stupid to fight while literally storming the inner gates of Icecrown Citadel. Seems pretty dumb to me.
For nitpicking at a thread your a genocidal evil monster!
Post by
4dehorde
Now I guess people want to get into a discussion about Lordaeron. The Forsaken have just as much a legitimate claim to it as the Alliance. The Forsaken called Lordaeron home in life when they were humans. The Alliance has a few, not many but a few, living Lordaeron survivors in their ranks. Both are entitled to it, but the fact remains niether the Forsaken or the Alliance can coexist peacefully. We saw this in Hillsbrad ever since the vanilla. Alliance raids on Forsaken patrols and travelers, anti-Forsaken lynchings, and the retaliation the Forsaken took against Hillsbrad Fields afterwards.
The Forsaken have every right to hate humanity. They suffered terribly at the hands of the Scarlet Crusade and the Alliance. The most notable was when Vishas tortured Vorrel Sengutz for weeks before stealing his wedding wing as a gift for his wife. Those on the Alliance side have said the Alliance hates undead because of the trauma of the Scourge invasions, fair enough, but trauma goes both ways. The genocidal actions taken by the Scarlet Crusade and the early aggressions of Hillsbrad and Silverpine humans has convinced the Forsaken humans are maniacs who want to destroy them and steal their land. And now, the Alliance has launched two attempted, failed but attempted, invasions of Lordaeron, only solidifying the Forsaken perception of humans.
People like to think the Forsaken are invaders themselves in Lordaeron, but remember they lived in Lordaeron when alive. Now, cursed in undeath they want to remain in what was always their homeland.
Post by
Mojoworkn
I don't understand the point in this thread anymore. Everyone here has stated that they believe both sides are evil, and have ADMITTED that the Alliance are no better than the Horde, yet you continue to belittle us as if we still haven't.
If I may ask 4dehorde, why are you only stating that the Alliance are "bad", without supplying us with any evidence that the Horde are equally as "bad"?
And I am pretty sure we just got trolled.
Post by
355559
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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