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The lack of hit rate on prot gear
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Post by
Bloodkittie
Hello all
I was thinking after i sat and look on the gear that now is the "best" for prot pala and on most gear that is out there have no hit rate on it (excepte the Tier 9 legs and wrist from BS or 10 men Toct). now i know we as prot pala don't need to have the hit cap but should drive to have as much as we can get. and due to the new gear that is available it seems that it will become abit of a problem... but i notice that most the new gear have "alot" of def rate and i was thinking should we as a prot pala should start to gem with the grean gem
+10hit +15stam
instead of
+10def +15stam
, just to balance btween the new gear that have alot of def and the lack of hit rate... also i know prot pala don't have any problems with threat atm but in patch 3.2.2 we r geting a "minor" change to RF (80% instead of 90%) and also we will gain our spell power from STR and not stam (and i know for me atleast it mean i am gonna lose SP)
so pls tell me what u think?
Post by
44284
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Synectics
The nerf to Righteous Fury isn't to make tanking as a Paladin more challenging. It's because in an off-tank role, we're pulling off the main tank -- that means we've just got way too much threat. The point is to level us off a little more with the other tanks, not to "nerf" us.
And with the change to TbtL, BoS will also give 10% extra Strength along with 10% Stamina, meaning that even without another Paladin to do Kings, you shouldn't really lose much Spellpower at all.
Post by
Bloodkittie
like i said i will lose SP in that change from the simple reason:
atm i have 2852stam * 30% = 855 while i have 1357str * 60% = 814 so that is the lost before the 10% buff true this lose of 41SP is not much but add it to the RF with 80% plus the lack of hit rate cause of the new gear, u will generate less threat then what u do today, but the real question will we need to "work" just abit harder or we will suffor like warriors that ask: "give me 3 sec before u the dps start so i can get the aggro..." that's why i am asking with all those upcoming changes would it be wise to change a gem or 2 to +10hit +15stam ?
Post by
123609
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Quest
The nerf to Righteous Fury isn't to make tanking as a Paladin more challenging. It's because in an off-tank role, we're pulling off the main tank -- that means we've just got way too much threat.
Sorry but that's ridiculous and not the reason. The reason its going to be 80% is due to the stam/str change. We will have roughly the same threat we did before. As it stands people are gemming too much for stam. This is from the 5-man heroic days where pugs wont invite if you dont have 30k health while not understanding what a tank is etc etc. I myself have had to rip some stam gems off myself to become a better tank. qq
Post by
Quest
like i said i will lose SP in that change from the simple reason:
atm i have 2852stam * 30% = 855 while i have 1357str * 60% = 814 so that is the lost before the 10% buff true this lose of 41SP is not much but add it to the RF with 80% plus the lack of hit rate cause of the new gear, u will generate less threat then what u do today, but the real question will we need to "work" just abit harder or we will suffor like warriors that ask: "give me 3 sec before u the dps start so i can get the aggro..." that's why i am asking with all those upcoming changes would it be wise to change a gem or 2 to +10hit +15stam ?
Youre gemming way too much stam. Replace with def gems
Post by
Bloodkittie
like i said i will lose SP in that change from the simple reason:
atm i have 2852stam * 30% = 855 while i have 1357str * 60% = 814 so that is the lost before the 10% buff true this lose of 41SP is not much but add it to the RF with 80% plus the lack of hit rate cause of the new gear, u will generate less threat then what u do today, but the real question will we need to "work" just abit harder or we will suffor like warriors that ask: "give me 3 sec before u the dps start so i can get the aggro..." that's why i am asking with all those upcoming changes would it be wise to change a gem or 2 to +10hit +15stam ?
Youre gemming way too much stam. Replace with def gems
quest when u don't know what to say u r just Trolling....
Post by
Quest
like i said i will lose SP in that change from the simple reason:
atm i have 2852stam * 30% = 855 while i have 1357str * 60% = 814 so that is the lost before the 10% buff true this lose of 41SP is not much but add it to the RF with 80% plus the lack of hit rate cause of the new gear, u will generate less threat then what u do today, but the real question will we need to "work" just abit harder or we will suffor like warriors that ask: "give me 3 sec before u the dps start so i can get the aggro..." that's why i am asking with all those upcoming changes would it be wise to change a gem or 2 to +10hit +15stam ?
Youre gemming way too much stam. Replace with def gems
quest when u don't know what to say u r just Trolling....
Are you high, son? Maybe youre 'suffor'ing from delusions. If you think 15stam10hit gems is cool you're nuts. You're simply saying "healers I suck so im offsetting the work onto you thx". I kept aggro just fine off 5.5k paladins and 7k rogues and Im in lesser gear than you. Use your spells, gem less for stam, you have more than enough already. Gem. Def.
If youre having issues holding aggro I suggest you go back and read some basic tanking guides instead of looking at +hit gems of all things.
Edit: That last part wasn't to be mean, I go back and read 101 tanking now and then too. Sometimes one will overlook simple *!@#! Forest for the trees and all that.
Post by
Squishalot
Good use of the delete button - much more effective.
Post by
Bloodkittie
like i said i will lose SP in that change from the simple reason:
atm i have 2852stam * 30% = 855 while i have 1357str * 60% = 814 so that is the lost before the 10% buff true this lose of 41SP is not much but add it to the RF with 80% plus the lack of hit rate cause of the new gear, u will generate less threat then what u do today, but the real question will we need to "work" just abit harder or we will suffor like warriors that ask: "give me 3 sec before u the dps start so i can get the aggro..." that's why i am asking with all those upcoming changes would it be wise to change a gem or 2 to +10hit +15stam ?
Youre gemming way too much stam. Replace with def gems
quest when u don't know what to say u r just Trolling....
Are you high, son? Maybe youre 'suffor'ing from delusions. If you think 15stam10hit gems is cool you're nuts. You're simply saying "healers I suck so im offsetting the work onto you thx". I kept aggro just fine off 5.5k paladins and 7k rogues and Im in lesser gear than you. Use your spells, gem less for stam, you have more than enough already. Gem. Def.
If youre having issues holding aggro I suggest you go back and read some basic tanking guides instead of looking at +hit gems of all things.
i never said i have a threat problems! i am holding with no problems any class if it is 6k dps hunters or 7k dps shamans 7.5k dps rogues...
i just in a simple way asked what do you think about the geming hit cause i saw that the new gear don't have it...
if u answer is no! it is stupied then cool tyvm! if u wish to explain why no? even better! tyvm.
but pls don't patronizes me.
Post by
Squishalot
i never said i have a threat problems! i am holding with no problems any class if it is 6k dps hunters or 7k dps shamans 7.5k dps rogues...
i just in a simple way asked what do you think about the geming hit cause i saw that the new gear don't have it...
if u answer is no! it is stupied then cool tyvm! if u wish to explain why no? even better! tyvm.
but pls don't patronizes me.
atm i have 2852stam * 30% = 855 while i have 1357str * 60% = 814 so that is the lost before the 10% buff true this lose of 41SP is not much but add it to the RF with 80% plus the lack of hit rate cause of the new gear, u will generate less threat then what u do today, but the real question will we need to "work" just abit harder or we will suffor like warriors that ask: "give me 3 sec before u the dps start so i can get the aggro..." that's why i am asking with all those upcoming changes would it be wise to change a gem or 2 to +10hit +15stam ?
All things considered, it does sound like you're worried about threat problems.
Hit is a threat stat. If you don't have threat problems, why would you be gemming for it? In other words, Quest is still right in this instance.
Post by
Bloodkittie
All things considered, it does sound like you're worried about threat problems.
Hit is a threat stat. If you don't have threat problems, why would you be gemming for it? In other words, Quest is still right in this instance.
never said Quest is worng.
i know hit rate is threat start but what made me open this thread was as i am gearing up i am losing hit rate meaning losing abit of threat making while geting more avoidance and also the changes of the new patch. so i thoght untill the patch is relessed and we can realy know if our threat making got lowered or not, i will ask ur option about that geming, like i said it could be bad & stupied but it is never hurt asking other ppl their option on it.
Post by
Rydiak
You asked for opinions, and Quest gave you his. You then called him a troll and said he didn't know what he was talking about. You sure you really want opinions?
Post by
Bloodkittie
calling Quest a Troll was worng sry!
i just didn't find the connection to what i he said to what he quote.
Post by
zoomie
In Ulduar, the 2 golems just before the junction where you decide if you're gonna go to Assembly of Iron or Kologarn, I always get the first kill target. Once that one goes down, I go to help take out the second target. Now, the kill takes less than 30 seconds (my AS is still on CD from the pull) by the time we are moving on. However, 30 seconds is an eternity for a tank to generate threat. When I move onto the second target and help to DPS, WITHOUT using AS, I am regularly at 75% of the second tanks threat before the mob goes down. And this is in about 20-25 seconds.
How do you know he is trying? Whenever I get in a situation like that where my mob isn't the first to kill, I just sit there auto attacking watching TV. If there is no dps going balls to the wall on your target, theres no need to generate massive threat on it. The other tank probably just doesn't care. That doesn't mean your threat is amazing and his is bad. Paladin threat isnt THAT much higher than the other tanks. Plus its only trash, nobody really takes trash that seriously. He is obviously not trying that hard.
I will give you an example. This time I will use an actual boss, not trash. Iron Council. We always do hard mode. We do runemaster, stormcaller, then steelbreaker. I always tank runemaster first because I have stronger threat than the tank who tanks steelbreaker, who is also a paladin. There is nobody dpsing steelbreaker for a few minutes so theres no need for him to do anything for threat. His main concerns are moving him out of runes of power, and cleansing fusion punch, and positioning him right next to stormcaller brundir after runemaster dies. By the time the first 2 die and we switch to steelbreaker, he has so much threat just from autoattacking that nobody is ever going to catch up, especially since theres a gimmick on that fight that makes him do twice as much damage at that point. And you can't say that he should try to do as much damage as he can, because when one guy dies, the other ones left alive heal back to full. So him dpsing to build threat does absolutely nothing, so he doesn't bother with it.
Post by
00bender00
First off, i'm not a raid tank at all. I only tank heroics / alt naxx runs (i'm ret as main spec, we cleared all U10 but yogg and alg so far).
I normally tank with
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=42987
(it is one of my 2 main ret trinkets so...), my tps is above 6k in 10 man iirc, not sure, will check it. I have roughly 1.5% hit in tank gear wich forces me to use the "taunt glyph", rofl.
Anyways, i'm pretty sure paladin threat works differently from paladin DPS, but seeing as you will gain spell power from strength next patch it will probably "the" tps stat as Quest said.
Dont forget you still have shadow priest / moonkin buff, and you could use a +hit food if you feel like it, or a str one maybe. I can hardly imagine a prot pala having threat problems, so i wouldnt be worried if i was you, next patch wont hit you as hard as you think :)
Post by
Quest
calling Quest a Troll was worng sry!
i just didn't find the connection to what i he said to what he quote.
The connection is this;
1. You have plunty of health
2.
Def gemming will give you more effective health
Actually pure dodge might be a better bet
(upto 3.6% more dodge till perry would be more valuable)
but I can't load the spreadsheet I normally use. Even after block cap esp in ulduar where block = lol
3. You should be (and I guess you are as you said) keeping aggro just fine.
Therefore my post.
Finally, even if you were having aggro issues, youd gem pure strength till around 2000 strength then gem hit. (even higher in the next patch!)
Or you can just start stacking agility gems, as they are
~97%
as effective as dodge (not recommended for ulduar bosses if you have no aggro issues) plus they give a threat boost.
Post by
frmorrison
Never gem/enchant for hit. Get the Armsman enchant and use both taunts (the chance of both failing are very low).
Agility/stam for red def/stam for yellow and 30 stam for blue (you don't have to follow the socket bonuses, but if you do that is what you should gem for).
Post by
Bairforem
More you hit = The more likely to be dodged and have the mob parry and retaliate.
Don't gem for hit let it come naturally. The less often you hit the less you have to rely on expertise preventing a parry and the less damage you take.
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