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The Garrosh Thread
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Post by
229054
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Post by
382219
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Post by
306612
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Post by
taurenmoo812
I'm loving trade now after the patch. Theres been a lot of ppl on trade saying 'omg have you seen how ugly garrosh is!' or 'Christ his heads small, look at his beady eyes' or another 'Did grom have sex with an orge or something, cause Sylvanas was right'.
Post by
taurenmoo812
Ok, wanting to get this off my chest, so rather then making another post on the threads I'll put this here.
I was reading a post on another forum someone wrote on there take on Garrosh's place in the horde, and what it represents. The bottom line of the peice was, well Thrall represented what the orcs could be, Garrosh represents what the horde was.
And this itself, is why I not only hate garrosh, but what he represents, and those that think he's such a great thing for the horde.
See, I've read though every warcraft novel, paying most attention to the horde story, from rise of the horde, right up to now, and there is no other way of saying this but the blunt fact. The horde was evil. It was a corrupt force who fell into sway with the legion, and was a mix of evil warlocks and corrupt warriors bent on bloodlust.
But here is the crux of it. Well the legion and the warlocks corrupted the horde, even before they drank the blood of mannaroth, the orcs were already a band of bloodthursty savages, without any sense of morality or honor. They fell into that way of fighting and killing anything they were told to, and they moved it. The reason why the orcs were corrupted so easily, its because all it took was because gul'dan offered them what they wanted more off, power, strength, and more means to destroy there enemies.
I honestly have no love for the first horde, except one part of it. Durotan and Draka, and maybe the frostwolves, who though were dragged into the bloodlust, you saw durotan questioning the morality of every action his people took. Unlike him, the rest of the horde just fell into this pattern, right up to before they were corrupted.
Now, go forward years later, to what we have now. Under Thrall, who was both the son of the one orc who defied what his people became, and one who wasn't raised within the corrupt hordes body, the orcs actully, finally, stopped being this band of ignorent and savage brutes, like something wirtten from a tolkein novel. The reason why I admire the horde under Thrall, was seeing what bastards they were, how corrupt there were, and how they overcame that.
Now, go to whats about to happen, we see Garrosh taking leadership of the horde.. and the second he does, the orcs go back to there old ways again. After years of believeing the orcs could overcome what they were, in cataclysm, that hope gets smeared.
Like I said, the orcs that fell into the bloodlust back on draenor is really what made the orcs such a self destructive race. They were meant to overcome this, but in cataclysm, it shows little sign of it. Quest givers saying how there glad for Garrosh because they can now act like what the horde use to be like, mindless, brutal killers.
and people seem to think this is cool. I find it gut wrenching. I hated what the horde use to be in the novels. If I wanted a race of insane, blood crazed devients I'd go play warhammer or lord of the rings online. The reason why I thought more of wow, honestly, was because the orcs were actully different here, not some stupid savages with only war on there minds, but a savage/noble race.. thats until cataclysm. And that is why I hate Garrosh, because for all this black spiked metal, loud mouthed screaming crap, all I see if some bastard that makes the orcs no better then there former selves.
Post by
Adamsm
Except he doesn't: No where, in the entire information we've got about Cata, does it say he's swung back to the old ways: No one is drinking demon's blood, the Warlocks are not in command, there are no demons at the fore front of the Horde.
Post by
drame
Except he doesn't: No where, in the entire information we've got about Cata, does it say he's swung back to the old ways: No one is drinking demon's blood, the Warlocks are not in command, there are no demons at the fore front of the Horde.
agreed, while Garrosh reinforces brute honor and such as is a part of the orcs way (uncorrupted - they got it due to dreanor -pre explosion- being hard to live on.)
He's thickheaded yes but other than that hes actually pretty orcish, brute honor system, a moral code (aka no mindless killing etc. Like he was taught by Thrall etc.) so all in all theres no old horde, is it the old horse because its orcs as well? No, so because they have a strenght based honor system outside the rest as well doesn't make it anything like the old horde.
In fact i would say their returning to their roots more likely, with shamans comming back more and more (Thrall being about the only one outside Drek'thar) them learning about the true honor system for orcs, bravery, strenght, wisdom and so on. So their actually if anything returning to one of the things Taurenmoo likes, sadly he cannot get over the fact Garrosh is the leader, which i cant see the big deal with unless your mindless so deep in the story every time you open wowwiki the melody from the neverending story begins to play and you dissapear from reality.
Post by
229054
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Post by
taurenmoo812
Except he doesn't: No where, in the entire information we've got about Cata, does it say he's swung back to the old ways: No one is drinking demon's blood, the Warlocks are not in command, there are no demons at the fore front of the Horde.
agreed, while Garrosh reinforces brute honor and such as is a part of the orcs way (uncorrupted - they got it due to dreanor -pre explosion- being hard to live on.)
He's thickheaded yes but other than that hes actually pretty orcish, brute honor system, a moral code (aka no mindless killing etc. Like he was taught by Thrall etc.) so all in all theres no old horde, is it the old horse because its orcs as well? No, so because they have a strenght based honor system outside the rest as well doesn't make it anything like the old horde.
In fact i would say their returning to their roots more likely, with shamans comming back more and more (Thrall being about the only one outside Drek'thar) them learning about the true honor system for orcs, bravery, strenght, wisdom and so on. So their actually if anything returning to one of the things Taurenmoo likes, sadly he cannot get over the fact Garrosh is the leader, which i cant see the big deal with unless your mindless so deep in the story every time you open wowwiki the melody from the neverending story begins to play and you dissapear from reality.
Forgive my bluntness, but you seem to have nievely overlooked that one, the orcs already had that code of honor and heroism to them when Thrall ruled them, and two, your not paying enough attention to what the orcs are doing in cataclysm. And since in cataclysm they appear to be reverting back to there old ways like in times of the first and second war, theres more then enough reason to say there arn't what you just claimed.
Post by
GVHB
It seems to me that they are reverting (more than reverting, adding bits of that culture to the current one) to the pre-Gul'dan era of the orc race, before the Warcraft games. After all, Garrosh is not the only brute Mag'har running around in the new Horde and they are the living embodiments of the old Horde (before the dark one).
Post by
Adamsm
Except he doesn't: No where, in the entire information we've got about Cata, does it say he's swung back to the old ways: No one is drinking demon's blood, the Warlocks are not in command, there are no demons at the fore front of the Horde.
In other words, Garrosh is the retarded cousin of Doomhammer. Pragmatic enough not to care for a war against the Alliance, certainly against the old ways but still pragmatic - except without the whole ''is a great leader and tactician'' deal.
Aye.
It seems to me that they are reverting (more than reverting, adding bits of that culture to the current one) to the pre-Gul'dan era of the orc race, before the Warcraft games. After all, Garrosh is not the only brute Mag'har running around in the new Horde and they are the living embodiments of the old Horde (before the dark one).
Oh don't say that, please don't say that; you'll set off Tauren even more. But yeah, Garrosh is bringing the ways of the Mag'har into the Horde.
Post by
306612
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Post by
taurenmoo812
It seems to me that they are reverting (more than reverting, adding bits of that culture to the current one) to the pre-Gul'dan era of the orc race, before the Warcraft games. After all, Garrosh is not the only brute Mag'har running around in the new Horde and they are the living embodiments of the old Horde (before the dark one).
You are kidding right?
So you've chosen to completely ignore what the orcs are doing in cataclysm and opted to make up what you think there doing, because Garrosh is a mag'har, he must be acting like one?
I actully cringe when people ignore the evidense put forward in this. When the orcs are acting JUST LIKE the Gu''dan horde your discribing.
Look at nagrand, look at the stone huts and way the mag'har lived, that is how the orcs use to live. Now look at orgrimmar and all the orc bases in cataclysm. Your telling me to find resemblence in these two syles of structures? Whatever Garrosh is, he isn't a mag'har, he doesn't follow whatever code they had to live by. He just wants to control and conquer the world, like his father did.
Also, newsflash, there wasn't a pre gul'dan horde, the orcs were a culture of shamanistic tribesmen, not a rampaging armor bent on destroying or conquering all, until they became the horde.
Post by
Adamsm
Look at nagrand, look at the stone huts and way the mag'har lived, that is how the orcs use to live. Now look at orgrimmar and all the orc bases in cataclysm. Your telling me to find resemblence in these two syles of structures? Whatever Garrosh is, he isn't a mag'har, he doesn't follow whatever code they had to live by. He just wants to control and conquer the world, like his father did. /sigh He's a merging of the two: In Warcraft 3, where the buildings have Nagrand influences on them, they are still covered in spikes and armour, as they are meant to be defensive locations. The only difference between the current buildings that Garrosh set up, and the exact same ones that Thrall used during the campaign of Warcraft 3 is the colour, that is it: They both had spikes, and they were both meant to be defensible.
Also...did you not notice the exploding zeppelin in the middle of Orgrimmar? Buildings that are mainly made of wood and hide, what happens when incredibly hot fire hits them? Woosh! Hate Garrosh all you want, but at least now, if Blacks rain down molten fire, at least the entire city won't go up in flames instantly.
Also, newsflash, there wasn't a pre gul'dan horde, the orcs were a culture of shamanistic tribesmen, not a rampaging armor bent on destroying or conquering all, until they became the horde.Who fought against the Gronns, the Ogres, had disagreements with their fellow tribesmen, were spread out and isolated from one another, had a dislike of outsiders, were not really helpful to other tribes, and had a law at the yearly gathering that all weapons were to be left away from the communal meeting places. They may not have been rampagers, but they sure as hell weren't hippies either.
Post by
306612
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Post by
taurenmoo812
Oh please Adams, don't overstate it again. The orcs are becoming like they were in warcraft 1-2, rampaging savages who revel in the idea of blood and glory and conquering lands, simply put, the horde that wanted war to happen for wars sake.
The claim that this horde is cata is returning to the ways the maghar lived is a joke, because Thrall already lead his people in the old ways before the orcs turned bad. Garrosh's purpose in the lore is to show what would happen is a Hellscream leads the horde, the whole victory at the cost of losing themselves to there bloodrage, just like before.
am I overstating something here? maybe, but at least I'm not interprating something that isn't happening or not taking notice of what is.
Post by
Adamsm
Oh please Adams, don't overstate it again. The orcs are becoming like they were in warcraft 1-2, rampaging savages who revel in the idea of blood and glory and conquering lands, simply put, the horde that wanted war to happen for wars sake....I'm sorry, are you actually being serious here? If so....da hell man, just da hell? The Horde was tricked into becoming Blood Savages; First War was a con game by the Shadow Council and Medivh. Second War was Doomhammer doing the best he could with what he had, while trying to control said Blood Savages, and trying to make a new world for them in the $%^&cluster he got dropped into. The Horde itself was never about War for War's sake, that was about the people behind the leadership.
So, I guess it would be better if the Horde just rolled over and died eh? Because, you do realize, had they left Thrall in command of the Horde during Cata *looks left and right before leaning over* He'd be doing the exact same thing: Keeping his people alive as he fought yet another War he didn't want.
Your not overstating anything; your just complaining because your view of the game is the same, but things are changing, which always happens. Get used to it, or stop playing the game; no one is forcing you to keep on going.
Also, after this
topic
of yours...your kinda of proving your having a problem between telling the difference between the real world and the video game....
Post by
taurenmoo812
Wow, Dr Adams strikes again in his physcological analysing of the situation.
Guess what sweetheart, just because I enjoy the game enough to actully voice when I think something is wrong with it doesn't mean I can't tell reality from fantasy. From someone who posts on every single thread on these forums and got more opinions going then anyone else, I'd hazzard a guess you spend more time on these threads then anyone, so don't tell me the difference between reality and fantasy thank you.
Second, I would expect this from someone who's favourite faction hasn't been through the riggers like mine one has. The whole point of Thralls horde, was it was a horde that after all the crap it caused and went though, it finally overcame itself, like it was meant to after Grom died. Seeing the orcs doing now in cata what they did like in warcraft 2, its for obvious reason I don't like or see anything good about where the horde is going in cata.
The alliance never had to deal with the notion that there faction ever did something they had to atone for. The orcs did that after they freed from the legions grip. but now, instead of having something that reflects what they were before they were corrupted, in cata, they only reflect what they were after they were corrupted.
Post by
138638
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Post by
Adamsm
Guess what sweetheart, just because I enjoy the game enough to actully voice when I think something is wrong with it doesn't mean I can't tell reality from fantasy. From someone who posts on every single thread on these forums and got more opinions going then anyone else, I'd hazzard a guess you spend more time on these threads then anyone, so don't tell me the difference between reality and fantasy thank you.Right, because you have such a solid lock on reality; you ended a 'friendship' because a friend went to the other faction and attacked your 'homecity'....and you don't see anything wrong with how that's worded?
As for your faction comment; yes, the Alliance hasn't been through as much stuff as the Orcs who are part of the Horde. The Tauren and Trolls nothing have atone for, they weren't part of the demon influenced Horde after all.
The orcs did that after they freed from the legions grip. but now, instead of having something that reflects what they were before they were corrupted, in cata, they only reflect what they were after they were corrupted.Bull %^&*; simple as that. That's only your view on it, tainted by your intense hatred of Garrosh. Yes, bad &*!@ is happening, but Garrosh is not just sitting there and laughing about it(like the next big Saturday morning villain is); if someone does something that is dishonourable, he's taking them to task, and killing them if needed. And before you says "But Thrall wouldn't....", ten gold had it been a commander under Thrall who bombed a city, killing innocents and non-combatants, same thing that happened with Garrosh would happen with him: The commander would be killed. And before you go "Oh that's not true", Thrall learned from both Doomhammer and Grom; and Grom threatened to kill his men if they brought down fire form the humans by killing children.
Seeing the orcs doing now in cata what they did like in warcraft 2, its for obvious reason I don't like or see anything good about where the horde is going in cata.Then save yourself an ulcer, a headache, and a possible mental breakdown, and quit now while the time is good, or just don't get Cata and wait for the 5th expansion.
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