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Tanking woes..
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Post by
twitch77
i didn't read all replys here (/lazy). . .but i noticed you haven't hit your soft expertise cap or your hard hit cap.
soft expertise cap is 26. . .hit cap is 8%.
hitting those 2 should help you out A LOT on threat.
These caps are for raid boss, while the op is having trouble in heroic thrash. Numbers for heroic thrash are a lot lower.
defently, but at the same time i really do think if he gets his expertise soft/hit caps he'll see improvements on his threat, and ultimately his ability to hold mobs.
Post by
Lorkin
I really appreciate all the responses, and with my new T8 helm, respec, and confidence heroics have not been an issue. I think i was so worried about tabbing through mobs to gain equal threat i was mssing thunderclaps and cleaves and shockwaves, now i charge one and spam that AOE love on em and it works.
See, proof that just using TC and Cleave works. For new tanks, the last thing they want to worry about is switching targets. You got new things to learn, have to learn where the mobs are coming from, who's getting hit, etc,etc. It's all a lot to take in tanking for the first few times. That's why the other classes have it so easy (or so it seems). They have a pretty easy method for holding aggro for multiple mobs.
Warriors from past expansions had a different methodology in doing that. With WotLK, they have given us the ability to do so in the same manner as the other tanks. Charge one target, spam TC, Cleaves, and Shockwaves. Gone are the days of tab targeting and sundering mob after mob. Unfortunately warriors of old are use to that mentality and teach it to their younger guild warriors. We have to put an end to that, there really is a simpler way.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Sakkura
Tabbing between targets and doing your regular single-target attacks will increase your AoE threat, but it's secondary compared to getting your shockwaves, thunder clap and cleaves right. It can be quite difficult, so concentrate on getting your AoE's cooking first, then you can always get to the advanced stuff later. It isn't strictly required for heroics at all, as long as DPSers hold their horses when appropriate. That's often where the problem lies anyway.
Post by
SeaOfHoles
Its the gauntlet event, you are supposed to stop them in most tight group (as tight groups are easy to tank and aoe dps) possible and kill them asap, before more comes out. Killing them asap is advisable because they have some nasty habits of rooting the tank in spot and disengaging back while switching a focus to your healer (warrior tanks arent the greatest ranged tanks out there).
Wrong. It wasn't Skadi hall. Just random trash. The hall before you go down the stairs to the 1st boss.
Actually there is a third option. You may have tactical awareness of a muppet and not be able to learn anything.
That must be it. Man, you're a %^&*.
It means you are doing something wrong. Most possible reason of doing not enough tps is not using your rage effectively. Best way of checking it is looking at your recount, if you melee dps is anywhere before Thunder clap, shield slam, shockwave, cleave/heroic strike, devastate, revenge... basically all your key abilities you are doing it wrong. Another good option is to check your rage bar. It should never ever hit 100 for more time than 1 GCD unless you are getting a heavy beating while feared/stunned.
I know this. That is not the issue. Thunder Clap, Shield Slam and Shockwave are always on cooldown because I use them anytime there are up (unless I am saving TC for some adds I know are coming). Cleave is constantly queued at > 50 rage on mutliple pulls.
I am more and more convinced, as others have said, it is because DPS is outgunning me. There is a limit to how much threat can be put out regardless of how well you mash buttons. I have runs where I don't lose aggro at all. And runs where mobs seem to love to break away. What's the difference other than the DPS of my party members?
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
SeaOfHoles
There are 2 single patroling guys which can pull additional group if caught agro in the middle of them.
Yes, I have seem them. Never seen them pull 6 additional mobs.
This is where may sit the problem. Cleave should be your number 3 ability on multipulls (after thunder clap and shockwave), unless you are severly rage starving, which you shouldnt with proper usage of Bloodrage and berserker rage along with shield spec/shield block.
Yup, it is. I Charge/Heroic Throw/Throw. Wait for them to gather slightly, Thunderclap, let them gather closer, step back a pace or two and then Shockwave. Rotate around them so I can see my group, have the mobs face away from my group or perhaps have visual coverage of where the next set of mobs is coming from (like a PAT). Then I start integrating Glyphed Cleave with my GCD priorities.
Some mobs have inbound "choose random target" AI, or "charge random ranged target" AI you cant do much about it. Just kill them asap or ask dps/healers to hug tank to prevent this from happening.
Right. I see that happen. I just try to taunt them and Thunderclap as best as I can. But often my issue is losing threat in big bold bright orange letters. I know I am not the only one having this issue. I have read some Tanks have regretted taking Armsman off their gloves.
Some others have the hunter AI and tend to attack from range and stay ranged the whole time. Like i said, unless you position yourself and mobs correctly* - warriors arent the greatest ranged tanks. If the mob gets out of melee range you are to be 100% sure you will loose agro eventually.
Single Range/Casters are pretty easy. I aggro all their melee buddies and drag them to the Ranged/Caster. Multiple casters is different story. My preference is to LOS them, but, often people just want to burn them where they stand.
Post by
Lorkin
I dont think Porcell fits into the category of "old mentality warriors". I think he just meant what i meant as well.
Never mentioned Porcell, think he's one of the most knowledgeable warriors on wowhead.
Tabbing between targets and doing your regular single-target attacks will increase your AoE threat, but it's secondary compared to getting your shockwaves, thunder clap and cleaves right.
I totally agree with Sakkura. What I meant to say was for the newer warrior tanks out there, try the "easy" method first before starting more advanced strats. If you hear more vet warrior tanks telling you to tab target, give to Cleave / TC thing a shot first. Learning to tab target from the beginning (while learning other things) may get too complicated.
I personally tab target mobs when I'm raiding and not running something on farm. What I do do is keep my AoE abilities on CD as first priority. After that though, I'm tab targetting from one mob to the next and throwing my single target attacks (shield slam, revenge, devastate). I generally switch when I get a sizable lead on that current target on omen.
Cleave is constantly queued at > 50 rage on mutliple pulls.
Hate to say this but I keep cleave on priority either 1st or 2nd. And I sure spam it till I'm dry of rage, rarely do I not have it queued for multiple mobs. I think if you keep it at the top of your list you will find you have zero aggro issues.
I am more and more convinced, as others have said, it is because DPS is outgunning me. There is a limit to how much threat can be put out regardless of how well you mash buttons. I have runs where I don't lose aggro at all. And runs where mobs seem to love to break away. What's the difference other than the DPS of my party members?
You're right about the dps of your party members. And you're right about your limit on how much threat you can put out. You are wrong that it is regardless on how well you mash your buttons. Truly, the only way to convince you would be to have a more veteran warrior tank actually play on your character. People all play differently, and in different ways. We're posting here on the forums to try to learn from one another, maybe if there is a possible better way to do something.
If you are running into issues when others aren't, don't you think it may be contributed to difference in playstyle? Perhaps if you changed one or two things slightly, you may experience better results. You might see what we are seeing, that you CAN hold aggro even over very high dps.
Single Range/Casters are pretty easy. I aggro all their melee buddies and drag them to the Ranged/Caster. Multiple casters is different story. My preference is to LOS them, but, often people just want to burn them where they stand.
I found H HoL's beginning area around the first boss to be a pain sometimes. Lots of ranged mobs you cant pull back, and often have to engage right where they are standing. Also some of the caster mobs in H Old Kingdom have to annoying factor of having to LOS them to move. Sometimes in those situations it may be hard to maintain aggro over everything, especially if they stay out of ranged with spell casts or ranged attacks.
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