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Tanking is too hard ><
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Post by
146856
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Post by
Rengarde
Well, druids (and warriors, for that matter) need a couple of seconds to build aggro, like 5-10, if you're starting out cold. You can't swipe without rage. I'd suggest marking a skull over a target and have it be "Focus fire on this target first". Also, FF(F) each target, as soon as it's off CD.
As a DK, you want to throw down a D&D in front of you and the group, but so that you are standing just inside AoE circle. Death grip the caster to you, if there is one. If there's more than one, then Strangulate the one you don't DG, if there's no casters, DG the target you want focused on. The reason for doing this is that if you DG the caster (there should be no more than one per pull*), the melee run straight through the D&D to you, and gain aggro that way.
If you lose targets, Dark Command (DK) or Growl (Druid), and focus on that target.
* The only exception to the "one caster per pull" in WotLK that I can think of at the moment is in CoS, where you walk with Arthas through the secret passage. It's the last pull before the Infinite Dragonflight boss. You have two options, run to where the casters are and stand there, and aggro the melee targets back to you (Death Grip and Dark Command), or run up to the melee and Death Grip and Strangulate the two casters.
Post by
146856
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Post by
Rengarde
I always do D&D first. One thing I do notice though is that mages always die first in my group. I was thnking of going for an unholy Dk tanking build since there are more disease and Unholy does have more AoE abilities even though it got nerfed.
Tanking seems fun in a way. U go in and have this major Hp pool and is just pounding on the target. But I do notice that the position in which tanks take is really important(not as criticial on an AoE tank but on my druid bear even a bad position could wipe the group).
Tanking is very challenge and require a lot of focus. When I heal I don't have to pay that much attention at all(well I still do) and have ot do the fights really well. Even in heroics where I heal lot's and lots but when I tank it seems so different.
Okay, but where you put the D&D is important as well. If you place it in a horrible place where the mobs won't run, it won't be so effective, now will it? ;)
Now, if you want a really good AoE spec, this is what you should use:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EMqIhIsfRbost0xZ0xh:oGiVMm
You do have to pay attention while you tank. You can't tank with having the attention span of a spoon. (cookie if you can tell me where it's from)
Edit: changed the spec slightly. Not paying much attention to what the tooltip says ><
Post by
MegaVolt
I got a Druid tank myself and never had that problem. Just hit Enrage (or a rage potion now that Druids can use them) before you Feral Charge in and Swipe (with Maul macroed to it) away. That instantly gives tons of AoE aggro and no Mage has ever been able to steal it from me (with AoE attacks ... single target nukes on some enemy that just gets hit by Swipe will of cause always out-threat you).
Tab through the mobs and look at the threat level in Omen. If one is about to break then keep that one selected so all Maul will hit it automatically. If it breaks away anyway (which really shouldn't happen) use Growl.
As a healer you are probably familiar with Grid. Use it when tanking, too - as aggro notifier. Whenever someone else in the group has the red aggro box I tab through all mobs asap and Growl the one that got away (I am too lazy to mark targets in heroics so occasionally a dps attacks something which doesn't get hit by my Maul, leading to aggro loss). If you lost aggro to a ranged dps the time it takes the mob to walk over to him should be more then enough to taunt it back. If you lost aggro to a melee dps he should probably be well armored enough to survive 1-2 trash hits at least. That also gives you plenty of time to taunt it back.
TL;DR: Growl is your friend. Macro Maul ("/cast !Maul") to your Swipe. Swipe early and often. Use Enrage before you go in and keep a rage potion ready.
Don't have much tanking experience with my DK since he isn't 80 yet but while running Underbog at lvl 66 with an 80 mage (me about 600 dps, he 1500 dps) I didnt run into many aggro problems. Which is really strange since I was pretty sure he would pull aggro from me all the time but somehow he just didn't ;) I'm still a little puzzled about that. Diseases + DnD seem to be quite effective for threat. Maybe spamming Blood Boil could also help?
Generally it is the dps fault if they pull aggro, not yours. Tell them to give you a few seconds to build threat and to dial down the damage a bit. I assume you are running with extremely well geared dps?
Post by
142329
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249416
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194492
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Post by
mindthegap5
Find a training dummy your not gonna be a miracle tank on your first few times
Post by
303152
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Post by
PureGold
If DPS dies, it is almost always 100% their own fault. Unless the tank is dead, it IS thier fault. If DPS is constantly dieing, kick them and replace them. Don't bother to try and drag their sorry butts places. Maybe throw them a few pointers, but from my xp, they will ignore your advice or even rage about you helping them.
You had truth until that. See there is this thing called bad tanks...they exist...or even more likely the dps can outgear you SO much that with a few strikes they pull aggro, say for example my rogue, even if I ToT the tank I pull aggro once Slice and Dice is up and going (If I outgear the tank that is). There is nothing I can do about it other than feint or vanish. I suppose I could stop attacking but what purpose would that really serve?
Sometimes tanks are just bad at threat, it happens, I've seen it.
Consider this if every dps you meet is pulling off of you, it might just be you.
Edit: As per the raging I'm totally agreeing with you, bad players will get offended if you tell them they are doing it wrong. I correct pallys all the time when I'm on my rogue.
Post by
161859
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Post by
332647
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Post by
PureGold
Even if the tank is bad, DPS can scale back accordingly. No need to go all out uber epeen DPS when you see the tank has trouble with aggro. If I see a tank having troubles holding aggro, then I'll change over to single target and only assist.
"Or.....even request CC"
I'm not even talking about doing anything, I literally just auto attack and pull aggro. I'm not going to stand back and watch while the tank struggles to keep aggro from the healer.
To your CC thing...If you ask that in a pug heroic nowadays people will respond with "What is CC?"
Post by
xaratherus
I suppose I could stop attacking but what purpose would that really serve?
Uh - not getting your face eaten because you pulled aggro? ;)
Part of being good DPS is watching your aggro, regardless of your gear. If that means you have to DPS more slowly (
Nao, u r going to DPS veeeerry slowly - and I mean #(@*!&$ slowly!
) then that's what you have to do.
If you're saying that it's the tank's fault that you do more DPS than they can put out in threat (assuming that the tank has the right gear - just not the right level of gear - and knows what they're doing) then I disagree: DPS can limit their threat by limiting the damage they do, but a tank has a finite cap on their threat output based on their level of gear.
Now, that's a completely different situation from a tank that's not wearing the correct gear or doesn't know the right attack rotations to put out optimal threat; if the tank is screwing off and the DPS dies even after using all their aggro reduction tricks, then it is obviously the tank's fault.
If you're auto-attacking and pulling aggro off the tank, PureGold :) then it's definitely not your fault, heh. That tank is either badly screwing up their aggro rotation or they're in like, quest blues while you're in T8.5. Even then, I think I could hold aggro just over auto-attacking...
Post by
PureGold
if you want to practice tanking but don't want the group to wipe run normal 80 dungeons like HoL etc
there is little chance you will wipe them there and you will get some practice in
As long as you are crit immune and not thick as mince tanking is not hard once you have done it a few times :o)
I have to agree with you completely.
Post by
PureGold
I suppose I could stop attacking but what purpose would that really serve?
Uh - not getting your face eaten because you pulled aggro? ;)
Part of being good DPS is watching your aggro, regardless of your gear. If that means you have to DPS more slowly (
Nao, u r going to DPS veeeerry slowly - and I mean #(@*!&$ slowly!
) then that's what you have to do.
If you're saying that it's the tank's fault that you do more DPS than they can put out in threat (assuming that the tank has the right gear - just not the right level of gear - and knows what they're doing) then I disagree: DPS can limit their threat by limiting the damage they do, but a tank has a finite cap on their threat output based on their level of gear.
Now, that's a completely different situation from a tank that's not wearing the correct gear or doesn't know the right attack rotations to put out optimal threat; if the tank is screwing off and the DPS dies even after using all their aggro reduction tricks, then it is obviously the tank's fault.
I'm a rogue 60-70% of my damage and therefore aggro comes from auto attack.
...it should also be mentioned, I like dying. I do it alot, even on very geared tanks. Its fun getting 140k Instructor crits when I pull in Naxx.
Post by
xaratherus
...it should also be mentioned, I like dying. I do it alot, even on very geared tanks. Its fun getting 140k Instructor crits when I pull in Naxx.
We used to run an informal betting pool during runs on how many times (not if, but how many) the Rogue who ran with us would die. :)
When they introduced Hand of Salvation I got to the point where I macroed it to that Rogue... good times.
Post by
161859
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
PureGold
...it should also be mentioned, I like dying. I do it alot, even on very geared tanks. Its fun getting 140k Instructor crits when I pull in Naxx.
We used to run an informal betting pool during runs on how many times (not if, but how many) the Rogue who ran with us would die. :)
When they introduced Hand of Salvation I got to the point where I macroed it to that Rogue... good times.
Thats me, today I tanked Instructor Razuvious for the entire length of my evasion, then vanished, built up aggro again and got one-shotted. Its lame being a rogue.
I'd venture I die the most out of anyone. Being that I'm tops dps in raids usually...I get a brez, so even on a wipe I die more.
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