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Survivability: Master of Destiny Ret build
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Post by
346558
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Post by
Dunsinane
Leveling builds do not include Vindication, which is completely worthless in PvE.
Leveling builds do not skip Seal of Command, which is your best choice for leveling at LEAST until Seal of Blood is available.
Leveling builds do not need Swift Retribution, which is largely a raiding talent.
The points in Holy aren't a good value. You're spending 8 points to get a 12% increase in healing. They'd be the last 8 you take as Ret, anyway.
Throwing together a level 80 build and calling it a "leveling" build isn't useful. The people who need leveling builds will still be asking where to start and what order to take the talents.
Post by
120897
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Post by
315875
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Post by
293902
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Post by
Dunsinane
Leveling builds do not include Vindication, which is completely worthless in PvE.
It's worthless raiding because bosses are immune to vindication. However while leveling, esp if you are mainly questing then it could be an option. I never took it because I thought other talents were better but it's not exactly worthless while leveling PVE.
No. It isn't useful for leveling. The reason is simple:
Vindication reduces the stats on the target by 20% - i.e. Strength, Intellect, Stamina, Agility.
This is very effective in PvP, as players rely on their stats for most of the derived stats that we value - i.e. Health, Mana, AP.
Mobs do NOT rely upon their stats for the resulting derived stats. For example, a typical mob will have very little Stamina and a massive +Health bonus that is in turn NOT affected by Vindication.
Post by
Usada
Athellos, if this build works for you then by all means go for it. However, if you are suggesting that this build is good for all retribution paladins, then you misunderstood the reasons behind cookie-cutter builds and the general negativity that comes with Hybrid builds.
Again, you can do whatever you want with your Talent tree. Just don't bring it into a competent community of retadins and expect to get praise from a Hybrid build.
Post by
315875
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Post by
Dunsinane
No. It isn't subjective.
Spending two talent points on an ability which does effectively nothing to your target is not a good expenditure of points by any argument you care to make, no matter how often it may proc. If Vindication's tooltip read, "Gives a chance to cause pretty rainbows to fly out of the Paladin's target's arse for 15 seconds" it would be about as effective in a game sense for PvE.
Those same points could have gone to something that would actually do damage. In a leveling build, at the time Vindication becomes available in the talent tree, you could be spending those points in three different core leveling talents. Seal of Command and Conviction increase your damage by light years over what Vindication may do. Pursuit of Justice cuts down on your down time and makes leveling much more efficient. It gets no better as you move to tiers four and five.
I'd suggest educating yourself on the concept of Opportunity Cost.
Post by
Quest
/popcorn
Post by
293902
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Post by
Proky
and maybe to put 8 points in holy tree its maybe better to put 5 points in Divinity in prot tree, all healing on you will be increased and your healing will be increased
Post by
Quest
Ret is known for their healing, its true.
Post by
Dunsinane
No. It isn't subjective.
If Vindication's tooltip read, "Gives a chance to cause pretty rainbows to fly out of the Paladin's target's arse for 15 seconds" it would be about as effective in a game sense for PvE.
is this talent coming out in 3.1? if it is, i am so getting it.
I'm betting on a glyph, personally.
Post by
211590
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Post by
346084
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Post by
blademeld
On another note, Vindication is a godly leveling talent on a PvP realm ;)
Post by
293902
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Post by
XxOmuraxX
Please people, dont say Vindication is useless while leveling because you are all ebayers or people that skiped it while leveling without knowing it (OMG DPS DPS DPS, ok what about % debuff?)
Yes most of trash in raids are immunes. Useless on bosses too.
You are a dps and a plate wearer, you got instant flash of light when you yellow crit, judgement of light. You got healers who are spec'ed only to heal you. Why would you lose time in healing? With bubble, LoH you are one of the last ones dying in raid.
Post by
daboss40
Please people, dont say Vindication is useless while leveling because you are all ebayers or people that skiped it while leveling without knowing it (OMG DPS DPS DPS, ok what about % debuff?)
Sooo, just because we strive for the most possible DPS means that we buy our toons. We know your kind. We call them trolls. You probably shouldn't post here.
You are a dps and a plate wearer, you got instant flash of light when you yellow crit, judgement of light. You got healers who are spec'ed only to heal you. Why would you lose time in healing? With bubble, LoH you are one of the last ones dying in raid.
All that is great, but I never understood why people think any of that is of use in a raid. Assuming there are no issues with the competency of the tanks, healers, the paladin themselves, or the general co-ordination of the raid, no ret paladin should ever use heals, LoH, bubble, AoW or any of our hands in a raid unless specific situations call for it. In other words, if you are using LoH because you forget about void zones,
you are doing it wrong
.
And whats this about being the last ones to die in a raid? You might want to read this before continuing your 'paladins live thru it all' talk.
If the MT and OT die, Everyone will die.
A bubble only prolongs your death. LoH only allows you to be hit once of twice more. All your hands and 'oh $%^&' buttons will wear off, and you will die. Whether we are the first or last to die makes no difference in the long run. Its about killing bosses, not just keeping yourself alive. If I need to die in order to allow the healers to keep the tank alive, then I die.
On a final note, everyone needs to stop with the 'leveling build' stuff. If you play on a PvP server, ganking will happen. There's no stopping it. If 2 lvl 80 members of the other faction get the drop on you while you're mining in Borean Tundra? Vindication will not save you. What people need to do is save their gold, decide what they wanna be, then start putting points into those areas immediately as you level. Trying to come up with silly hybrid builds that will do nothing against a bunch of bored 15yr olds on a ganking spree. Focus on trying to get through content, while building your level (and faction rep) and earning valuable grouping experience. You'll get to 80 faster than you think.
Hope this Helps.
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