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Second opinion needed.
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Post by
331845
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
valundar
First off... your spec needs a bit of tweaking.
I would go with
This spec.
It gives you an extra point in
SA
and takes one out of
Crusade
.
(for raiding i would only go 1 in SA and fill out crusade..but for heroics this works great.)
For glyphs.. the SA one isn't as helpful as that one from the talent.
I swapped it with the HoR one to hit nother target... that should bring you up to 4 mobs easily!
(remember... keep tabbing through the mobs.. that will help you control a larger crowd.)
Gemming and gear:
Can you please let me know if you wil be primarily raid or heroic tanking 1st please?
Post by
404185
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
331845
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
valundar
Thanks for the feedback.
Primarily, I will be doing Heroics for the forseeable future. My guild doesn't have any raid spots at the moment, so I'm benched for a bit, forcing me to use Triumph badges to keep my gear up to date.
I already have 2/2 in SA - but you are correct about the glyph change, which would certainly help that 4th mob issue. I do tab through mobs and pickup the loose one when I can, or if it's on the healer, but it gets frustrating at times, especially when the top DPS'er is focus-firing and wondering why he's pulling aggro.
I used your suggested build, made a few tweaks due to play style and utility and came up with this:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0tAbuMGsIufdxsr0bM:pNGczm
That'll give me 2/2 might and vindication, while keeping PoJ and Crusade.
I'm starting to lose my block set, I know - but it feels inevitable because of drops and where Blizz is going with gear upgrades. Block rating seems to be not so popular on newer items... am I wrong?
I just got a pallendrome for a code: pz5zp
I know hat is workin on a post for ya.. so imma wait for his to hit..
But i will say that you should swap out some defense for stam and +hit + expertise.
This
is a good start. (remember... if you aren't tankin raids... 535 is the defense
cap
minimum)
Post by
hatman555
Ok mate,
You need to do 2 things here. One is focus on getting better gear, and another is focus on learning the tricks of paladin tanking. Thankfully, you can do them both in the same way.
Run heroics.
Spec changes
I have modified Valundar's spec a little bit and suggest using
this spec
. It drops that point in SA because learning how to tank properly will help you keep your mana up in heroics. Again its going to be alot of trial and error. Your going to need to keep your eye on the mana pool and really learn when your mana will be going up the most. My recommendation is that you keep atleast 40
Star's Sorrow
in your bags at all times. You can buy these from the water vendor in the Dalaran sewers. Its 1 gold and 12 honor for a stack of 20, BY FAR the cheapest drinks around. Untill you learn how to control your mana make sure you are drinking one if you have less than 2K mana. it should only take about 5 seconds to get back up to 5-6K. I know it feels a bit of a waste....but hey that's why they only cost 1 gold.
Pursuit of Justice
honestly i will never spec into PoJ. I feel like the 2 points can be spend better in threat or other places. You control everything in a heroic. You are the tank. You are a paladin tank at that, you have 2 taunts that have 30 yard range. If your relying on 16% speed to run to a target for threat you are doing it wrong. of course the other half of the coin is disarm effects. There are very few mobs that disarm you, and when they do its often too late. Learn which mobs do it and just keep it in the back of your mind.
Divine Sacrifice
and
Divine Guardian
. As soon as 3.3 hit I was pugging heroics like no other. I did 26 heroics in a little under 12 hours of play time and i use that spell every time it was off CD. It is a party saver! Learn to use it. Macro
Hand of Sacrifice
to your grid or a hotkey, and your healers will start to love to run with you.
So that's my reasoning and opinion for that spec. Its totally tailor to a 5 man group and will really help you learn how to tank on your feet and use all the abilities you have in your tool box.
Pulling more and keeping threat.
I took OUT your
Glyph of Hammer of the Righteous
It's nice and fun, but its actually going to be a crutch to you. What the hammer does it help you hold threat on 4 mobs easily with out needing to do much. You need to learn to keep threat on 6+ mobs. There are 2 ways to go about doing this.
||||
4 mobs
Your strategy should be using
Avenger's Shield
for the pull and at the same time using
Hand of Reckoning
on the forth mob the shield doesn't hit. This will be hard. It will take you practice to think like your shield and know which mobs are going to be hit by the shield and what mob is going to be left out. It takes some memory, but you'll also learn to predict its movements. Follow up with a Hammer of the Righteous on the same 3 mobs that your shield hit. Then
Shield of Righteousness
the mob you taunted. There is nothing that your DPS can do that is going to pull these mobs off of you as they group around you. Once you are in your tanking spot drop your consecrate and start rotating your attacks on the targets as needed.
I want to digress here for a second and mention something about "tab targeting" Yes, tab targeting does rotate your attacks pretty well, but if you want to be truly successful you will enable your floating health bars, disable the new feature were health bars merge so you can see them all, and then click through those bars keeping your eye on your target frame. The goal is to apply as many stacks of your Seal of Vengeance. This will dramatically increase the amount of threat you have on targets, and you will defiantly see it in your overall DPS.
||| |||
6 mobs
This is more commonly a double pull. Run in and Hammer of Righteous your first 3 targets and then Avenger shield the next 3 mobs. Run past the first three you hit and stand in between the two groups. Drop your consecrate and then do a side step so that none of the mobs are attacking you from behind. rotate your attacks and stack those SOV stacks. You should have a pretty strong hold on most of these mobs.
||| ||| |
7 mobs
Put together the best of 4 and 6 mobs together. either use your taunt on the first pull or on the second but combine the strats and you should have no problem.
||| ||| |||
9 mobs
Now your getting to the fun part. shock and awe baby shock and awe! pull your first 6 mobs and drop your consecrate just like in the 6 mob pull. instead of side stepping and grouping them in the middle of the 2 groups, run past them leaving them behind on your consecrate and pull another 3. Try and get as many single attacks on these new 3 mobs before turning back around and applying a new round of Hammer of the Righteous on the very first 3 mobs you pulled. With 9 mobs its a pretty good change that one of your DPS is going to get crazy and drop his AOE sooner than you had planned. BOP casters and get your taunt ready for melee. If they pull threat hit them with a Righteous Defense and then keep dropping your consecrate.
Want practice?
Heroic HOL Halls of lighting is probability once of the best places to practice your tanking. You should run that every day if possible. You can easily control how many packs of mobs you pull for more or less challenging situations. Once you get past the 3rd boss too you enter the dwarf blender room of death. Practice using your Hand of scarifies on your healer to help him coop with the charge damage that he will take. And practice using your Divine sacrifice to prevent alot of that melee whirlwind damage.
Gear
Do the random PUG dungeons. the 5% to health, damage, and healing received will help you get badges very quickly. the extra bonus 2 emblems won't hurt either :-P. At the least you should be able to get your tear 9 ilvl232 gear very quickly. There is a nice new
tanking sword
that drops off of the last boss in
H PoS
Gear helps, the STR you gain from your gear will help you keep the threat and pull faster....but there is no reason why you should think you can't do it without it, or with what you have right now. Skill > Gear. Practice your tanking in HOL and Good luck to you mate.
If you have more questions, I'm always open to talk about tanking on a Ventrilo server! Just let me know.
Cheers,
Hat
Post by
valundar
Ok mate,
You need to do 2 things here. One is focus on getting better gear, and another is focus on learning the tricks of paladin tanking. Thankfully, you can do them both in the same way.
Run heroics.
Spec changes
I have modified Valundar's spec a little bit and suggest using
this spec
. It drops that point in SA because learning how to tank properly will help you keep your mana up in heroics. Again its going to be alot of trial and error. Your going to need to keep your eye on the mana pool and really learn when your mana will be going up the most. My recommendation is that you keep atleast 40
Star's Sorrow
in your bags at all times. You can buy these from the water vendor in the Dalaran sewers. Its 1 gold and 12 honor for a stack of 20, BY FAR the cheapest drinks around. Untill you learn how to control your mana make sure you are drinking one if you have less than 2K mana. it should only take about 5 seconds to get back up to 5-6K. I know it feels a bit of a waste....but hey that's why they only cost 1 gold.
Pursuit of Justice
honestly i will never spec into PoJ. I feel like the 2 points can be spend better in threat or other places. You control everything in a heroic. You are the tank. You are a paladin tank at that, you have 2 taunts that have 30 yard range. If your relying on 16% speed to run to a target for threat you are doing it wrong. of course the other half of the coin is disarm effects. There are very few mobs that disarm you, and when they do its often too late. Learn which mobs do it and just keep it in the back of your mind.
Divine Sacrifice
and
Divine Guardian
. As soon as 3.3 hit I was pugging heroics like no other. I did 26 heroics in a little under 12 hours of play time and i use that spell every time it was off CD. It is a party saver! Learn to use it. Macro
Hand of Sacrifice
to your grid or a hotkey, and your healers will start to love to run with you.
So that's my reasoning and opinion for that spec. Its totally tailor to a 5 man group and will really help you learn how to tank on your feet and use all the abilities you have in your tool box.
Pulling more and keeping threat.
I took our your
Glyph of Hammer of the Righteous
It's nice and fun, but its actually going to be a crutch to you. What the hammer does it help you hold threat on 4 mobs easily with out needing to do much. You need to learn to keep threat on 6+ mobs. There are 2 ways to go about doing this.
||||
4 mobs
Your strategy should be using
Avenger's Shield
for the pull and at the same time using
Hand of Reckoning
on the forth mob the shield doesn't hit. This will be hard. It will take you practice to think like your shield and know which mobs are going to be hit by the shield and what mob is going to be left out. It takes some memory, but you'll also learn to predict its movements. Follow up with a Hammer of the Righteous on the same 3 mobs that your shield hit. Then
Shield of Righteousness
the mob you taunted. There is nothing that your DPS can do that is going to pull these mobs off of you as they group around you. Once you are in your tanking spot drop your consecrate and start rotating your attacks on the targets as needed.
I want to digress here for a second and mention something about "tab targeting" Yes, tab targeting does rotate your attacks pretty well, but if you want to be truly successful you will enable your floating health bars, disable the new feature were health bars merge so you can see them all, and then click through those bars keeping your eye on your target frame. The goal is to apply as many stacks of your Seal of Vengeance. This will dramatically increase the amount of threat you have on targets, and you will defiantly see it in your overall DPS.
||| |||
6 mobs
This is more commonly a double pull. Run in and Hammer of Righteous your first 3 targets and then Avenger shield the next 3 mobs. Run past the first three you hit and stand in between the two groups. Drop your consecrate and then do a side step so that none of the mobs are attacking you from behind. rotate your attacks and stack those SOV stacks. You should have a pretty strong hold on most of these mobs.
||| ||| |
7 mobs
Put together the best of 4 and 6 mobs together. either use your taunt on the first pull or on the second but combine the strats and you should have no problem.
||| ||| |||
9 mobs
Now your getting to the fun part. shock and awe baby shock and awe! pull your first 6 mobs and drop your consecrate just like in the 6 mob pull. instead of side stepping and grouping them in the middle of the 2 groups, run past them leaving them behind on your consecrate and pull another 3. Try and get as many single attacks on these new 3 mobs before turning back around and applying a new round of Hammer of the Righteous on the very first 3 mobs you pulled. With 9 mobs its a pretty good change that one of your DPS is going to get crazy and drop his AOE sooner than you had planned. BOP casters and get your taunt ready for melee. If they pull threat hit them with a Righteous Defense and then keep dropping your consecrate.
Want practice?
Heroic HOL Halls of lighting is probability once of the best places to practice your tanking. You should run that every day if possible. You can easily control how many packs of mobs you pull for more or less challenging situations. Once you get past the 3rd boss too you enter the dwarf blender room of death. Practice using your Hand of scarifies on your healer to help him coop with the charge damage that he will take. And practice using your Divine sacrifice to prevent alot of that melee whirlwind damage.
Gear
Do the random PUG dungeons. the 5% to health, damage, and healing received will help you get badges very quickly. the extra bonus 2 emblems won't hurt either :-P. At the least you should be able to get your tear 9 ilvl232 gear very quickly. There is a nice new
tanking sword
that drops off of the last boss in
H PoS
Gear helps, the STR you gain from your gear will help you keep the threat and pull faster....but there is no reason why you should think you can't do it without it, or with what you have right now. Skill > Gear. Practice your tanking in HOL and Good luck to you mate.
If you have more questions, I'm always open to talk about tanking on a Ventrilo server! Just let me know.
Cheers,
Hat
I always wanted PoJ for faster running to the next mobs.
And i chose divinity over the bubble because it seems to get more use in 5 mans. (ie.. .no pally healer spammin ya with monster heals all the time) it allows smaller heals to do the trick.
But... all this advice works.
Experiment!
PROFIT!
WIN!
Post by
331845
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
hatman555
I always wanted PoJ for faster running to the next mobs.
And i chose divinity over the bubble because it seems to get more use in 5 mans. (ie.. .no pally healer spammin ya with monster heals all the time) it allows smaller heals to do the trick.
Eh, heals are heals, and 3% is 3% no mater who is healing you. Divinity is nice when your healer dies and you need to switch to Seal of light to stay alive and prove to the group that you don't really need a healer.
I guess PoJ is a preference. Personally I would say no, because in
Soviet Russia mobs chase you!
Cheers,
Hat
p.s. While I wanted to get a clip of a soviet russia joke....the one i linked i enjoy much more :-)
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