This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Classic Theme
Thottbot Theme
Rouges in 3.2
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
Overhaul
I would like to know with the changes to Seal of Vengeance/Corruption, would there be a big change to the dots done to rouges.
I know a prot pally should be able to beat rouges, but there are a few on my realm that I duel that can keep me stunned the entire time and prevent me from getting more than one hit on them (These guys have arena ratings in the 2000+ range easily).
So I was wondering the new changes to the dot on seal of Vengeance/Corruption could assist me in this. The patch notes mention: Seal of Vengeance and Seal of Corruption: These seals have been redesigned to deal substantially more damage. Now, once a paladin has 5 copies of the debuff from these seals on his or her target, on each swing the paladin will deal 33% weapon damage as Holy, with critical strikes dealing double damage.
In addition, the damage-over-time effect is now considered a melee attack instead of a spell attack
.
I placed extra emphasis on the last sentence because vanish, I am aware, gets rid of magic dots. I have never played a class that has a dot that isn't magic and am wondering if a rouge's vanish could get rid of the dot from the new Seal of Vengeance/Corruption.
Post by
kaliko
thats a good question...i am thinking no...because i am guessing it will be like rend from a warrior? idk for sure just a guess
Post by
svirve
Just a quick "fix't".
Vanish doesn't remove anything but combat from the rogue.
Cloak of Skill
removes magic effects (such as the SoV dot) on the rogue.
After 3.2 i'm guessing it wont.
Post by
kaliko
so ya what svirve said..and svirve i am using ur sig if u dont mind
Post by
Sgtpain
Read the rogue forums and you will see how common it is for rogues to have trouble killing pallies. The damage output of the prot pally is a little low, so I can see how this will be good for a prot pally. maybe put it into a PvP prot build. What will make this imba, is if the ret pallies figure out how to use it and continue with their burst damage. You only need apply it once, then switch seals for burst. No, mana isn't an issue doing this, as I have done it lots of times during PvP against rogues.
We will see how it pans out in the PTR. I have an 80 pally and a 60 rogue. I don't care either way, as long as skill ends up being the end all. Sometimes I feel my ret pally in PvP is a little mid numbing, because it really doesn't take a WHOLE lot of skill to kill things.
Post by
svirve
You're going to have to ask reyan permission to do that. It's his quote.
Btw when i said cloak of skill wont remove after 3.2 i mean that it wont remove the SoV dot. Not that it will not remove magic effects..
Post by
Overhaul
Ah, so if that is true, then if a pally uses Seal of Vengeance/Corruption against a Rouge, they should be visable to your dot. That is if I understand the mechanics of the game correctly.
So, if I understand the mechanics right, rouges should be far easier for pallys to handle after 3.2. Of course i am sure i am wrong since blizzard is never that nice.
What I want to know is, if a rouge does vanish, will our new dot make them visible to me so i can get an Avengers sheild into them and 3 shot them. Right now I have to worry about them vanishing again, stunning me, and loading me full of poisons for me to have to clease as i get ready for the next round of stuns and poisons.
I haven't thought of a good way right now on how to win a very good rouge in duels, and wondering if this could be a key for me being able to get the edge on them.
Post by
Sgtpain
Ah, so if that is true, then if a pally uses Seal of Vengeance/Corruption against a Rouge, they should be visable to your dot. That is if I understand the mechanics of the game correctly.
So, if I understand the mechanics right, rouges should be far easier for pallys to handle after 3.2. Of course i am sure i am wrong since blizzard is never that nice.
What I want to know is, if a rouge does vanish, will our new dot make them visible to me so i can get an Avengers sheild into them and 3 shot them. Right now I have to worry about them vanishing again, stunning me, and loading me full of poisons for me to have to clease as i get ready for the next round of stuns and poisons.
I haven't thought of a good way right now on how to win a very good rouge in duels, and wondering if this could be a key for me being able to get the edge on them.
I honestly dunno how a ret pally has trouble with rogues. If a rogue is stun locking you, he's not doing much damage. Also, with your consacration down, and your ret aura, it eats away at his health too. When I am a sitting duck and on one else is around, I typically keep consacration down to prevent one from sneaking up on me, and NEVER trinket out of the sap. You have LoH, bubble, hand of freedom, trinket etc. You should be getting out of every stun he hits you with, and then DR takes affect.
Post by
Synectics
Question is: does the SoV/C DoT count as a "bleed" effect? I wouldn't think so, but if so, that lets the rogue use "Hunger for Blood."
Also of note -- while this may sound nice against a Rogue, who can't Cloak of Skill out of the DoT... with it being a melee attack, it can now be resisted / mitigated much easier than Holy spell damage could.
Post by
89501
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
Also of note -- while this may sound nice against a Rogue, who can't Cloak of Skill out of the DoT... with it being a melee attack, it can now be resisted / mitigated much easier than Holy spell damage could.
I'm not so sure about that, it still does Holy damage. It'd be just like our Judgement, which is a melee attack that can't be blocked, parried or dodged.
Stranger things have happened...
Post by
Sgtpain
Ah, so if that is true, then if a pally uses Seal of Vengeance/Corruption against a Rouge, they should be visable to your dot. That is if I understand the mechanics of the game correctly.
So, if I understand the mechanics right, rouges should be far easier for pallys to handle after 3.2. Of course i am sure i am wrong since blizzard is never that nice.
What I want to know is, if a rouge does vanish, will our new dot make them visible to me so i can get an Avengers sheild into them and 3 shot them. Right now I have to worry about them vanishing again, stunning me, and loading me full of poisons for me to have to clease as i get ready for the next round of stuns and poisons.
I haven't thought of a good way right now on how to win a very good rouge in duels, and wondering if this could be a key for me being able to get the edge on them.
I honestly dunno how a ret pally has trouble with rogues. If a rogue is stun locking you, he's not doing much damage. Also, with your consacration down, and your ret aura, it eats away at his health too. When I am a sitting duck and on one else is around, I typically keep consacration down to prevent one from sneaking up on me, and NEVER trinket out of the sap. You have LoH, bubble, hand of freedom, trinket etc. You should be getting out of every stun he hits you with, and then DR takes affect.
You obviously dont play a pally much do you? Pallies are disarmable and when that happens we can use pretty much all of none of our attacks. A good rogue will keep you disarmed, "stun locked" and tear through you like youre a clothy.
Mind you when we get the upper hand IE their cd's are down or can get the initial stun they can usually die equally as fast. In a fair fight however rogues get more buttons and more ways out of our cc.
4,000 kills. I know people have more, and its not some kind of record, but, 4,000 certainly is "enough".
If you have trouble with rogues, L2P.
Post by
89501
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
svirve
Question is: does the SoV/C DoT count as a "bleed" effect? I wouldn't think so, but if so, that lets the rogue use "Hunger for Blood."
Also of note -- while this may sound nice against a Rogue, who can't Cloak of Skill out of the DoT... with it being a melee attack, it can now be resisted / mitigated much easier than Holy spell damage could.
Hunger for blood has been changed it now requires a bleed effect on the rogues target.
Before it was usable even if you didnt have any bleeds on you just that it would refund 2/3 of the cost if you did have a bleed on you.
I'm pretty sure you wont be able to avoid the seal dot and i'm 100% sure you wont be able to mitigate it (there is no holy resistance).
4,000 kills. I know people have more, and its not some kind of record, but, 4,000 certainly is "enough".
If you have trouble with rogues, L2P.
4,000 kills is not even imaginably close to enough to be able to assume that you know how to deal with any class actually.
I've got closer to 200,000 kills spread across 4 chars (and 3 classes) and i still have alot of problems with many classes on most of them.
Mind you when we get the upper hand IE their cd's are down or can get the initial stun they can usually die equally as fast. In a fair fight however rogues get more buttons and more ways out of our cc.
Munkles knows his &*!@ i'd advice you to listen to him.
If a rogue is stun locking you, he's not doing much damage.
I cant understand why a rogue
would do less damage
when stunlocking you
Puh-lease get your facts straight.
Post by
430629
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
svirve
Rogues do far less damage while stun-locking you due to combo point losses used on kidney shot. In any case, a good rogue can beat most classes and players 1:1.
Ehm yea they dont.
First of all a rogue that uses deadly poison in PvP either knows he's fighting a lone plate wearer.
Or he knows he'll never fight more than 1 person.
Since a rogue in his right mind doesn't use deadly poison in PvP (unless above criteria are met) he cant use envenom. Thus he either has to use rupture, expose armor, KS or eviscerate as a finishing move.
Rupture is good against plate since it does unmitigated damage but it's a bleed so prevents the rogue from using any CC.
Expose armor, once again a good skill to use against plate wearers but it's been vastly nerfed lately. Now only reduces 20% of your enemies armor (roughly 2.2k on a ret pala).
Eviscerate, no no no and once again no. It is mitigated by armor and does poor damage to start with.
Kidney Shot, lets you freely position yourself behind your opponent and not worry about taking any damage (except perhaps leftover dots/bleeds) at all for up to 6 seconds. And if you're specced into assasination you and all of your buddes will do 9% more damage during this time.
Rogues do less damage when stun locking. But it's very far from a considerable amount.
Post by
Sgtpain
Question is: does the SoV/C DoT count as a "bleed" effect? I wouldn't think so, but if so, that lets the rogue use "Hunger for Blood."
Also of note -- while this may sound nice against a Rogue, who can't Cloak of Skill out of the DoT... with it being a melee attack, it can now be resisted / mitigated much easier than Holy spell damage could.
Hunger for blood has been changed it now requires a bleed effect on the rogues target.
Before it was usable even if you didnt have any bleeds on you just that it would refund 2/3 of the cost if you did have a bleed on you.
I'm pretty sure you wont be able to avoid the seal dot and i'm 100% sure you wont be able to mitigate it (there is no holy resistance).
4,000 kills. I know people have more, and its not some kind of record, but, 4,000 certainly is "enough".
If you have trouble with rogues, L2P.
4,000 kills is not even imaginably close to enough to be able to assume that you know how to deal with any class actually.
I've got closer to 200,000 kills spread across 4 chars (and 3 classes) and i still have alot of problems with many classes on most of them.
Mind you when we get the upper hand IE their cd's are down or can get the initial stun they can usually die equally as fast. In a fair fight however rogues get more buttons and more ways out of our cc.
Munkles knows his &*!@ i'd advice you to listen to him.
If a rogue is stun locking you, he's not doing much damage.
I cant understand why a rogue
would do less damage
when stunlocking you
Puh-lease get your facts straight.
if you need 20,000 kills under your belt and still can't beat a rogue, and I have 4,000 kills ON MY PALLY, and CAN beat rogues, then I am not the one with the learning disability.
Bottom line is, when a rogue kidney shots, he loses his combo points. Kidney shot = less damage. Yes, there is a talent that increases damage while a target is under the affects of kidney shot, but it's to make up for the extreme lack of dps from using up all those CPs.
Again, check the rogue forums. You CAN read the rogue forums, you know? They talk about pallies beating them all the time.
Post by
430629
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
svirve
if you need 20,000 kills under your belt and still can't beat a rogue, and I have 4,000 kills ON MY PALLY, and CAN beat rogues, then I am not the one with the learning disability.
Bottom line is, when a rogue kidney shots, he loses his combo points. Kidney shot = less damage. Yes, there is a talent that increases damage while a target is under the affects of kidney shot, but it's to make up for the extreme lack of dps from using up all those CPs.
Again, check the rogue forums. You CAN read the rogue forums, you know? They talk about pallies beating them all the time.
Please learn to read, and you say i have a learning disability.
I never said i cant kill rogues, i said that with 20
0
,000 kills i still have problems with different classes on some of my characters. I never ever ever ever mentioned rogues and paladins.
If you're gonna come in here PMS'ing and scream "ALL HAIL ME I AM BG KINGZ" dont make it so easy to reply when you contradict yourself and throw your own disabilitys around you.
Once again if you loose SOOOOOO MAAAWWCH damage from using KS what are you going to use instead?
I'll be more than happy to prove to you that you dont lose much damage at all by using KS.
Post by
Sgtpain
if you need 20,000 kills under your belt and still can't beat a rogue, and I have 4,000 kills ON MY PALLY, and CAN beat rogues, then I am not the one with the learning disability.
Bottom line is, when a rogue kidney shots, he loses his combo points. Kidney shot = less damage. Yes, there is a talent that increases damage while a target is under the affects of kidney shot, but it's to make up for the extreme lack of dps from using up all those CPs.
Again, check the rogue forums. You CAN read the rogue forums, you know? They talk about pallies beating them all the time.
Please learn to read, and you say i have a learning disability.
I never said i cant kill rogues, i said that with 20
0
,000 kills i still have problems with different classes on some of my characters. I never ever ever ever mentioned rogues and paladins.
If you're gonna come in here PMS'ing and scream "ALL HAIL ME I AM BG KINGZ" dont make it so easy to reply when you contradict yourself and throw your own disabilitys around you.
Once again if you loose SOOOOOO MAAAWWCH damage from using KS what are you going to use instead?
I'll be more than happy to prove to you that you dont lose much damage at all by using KS.
I did read what you posted. You posted Assassination talents, ONLY ONE of which affects kidney shot directly. Those other talents apply to eviscerate, ambush etc, so those too get the bonuses. Kidney shot doesn't do damage, so the "Master of Subtelty" doesn't affect it at all, and the energy regeneration applies to racking up combo points, not increasing the imaginary damage of KS. So, you can either get a 6k+ Eviscerate crit (or envenom), or you can use up those 5 points in a stun that doesn't do damage. If you're lucky and DR hasn't taken much affect, you can get a mutiliate in there to benefit the damage bonus, otherwise, the bonus will only be from poisons and white hits.
On plate, typically, rupture is used because it ignores armor and you can re-stealth while it ticks away, bringing Master of Sub" buff you again, then re-open with a garrote or cheap shot, and then finish up with an eviscerate, maybe accompanied with a cold blood. Burst is really important, and when you use stuns, you LOSE YOUR BURST DAMAGE!
Did you also know that cheap shot doesn't do damage? OMG! Oh noes!
PMSing? No, when you posted the fact that you needed 200k (btw, it was bad enough at 20k, now you're saying you still suck after 200k) kills to prove your lack of PvP and class knowledge, I couldn't resist. Keep posting, you're proving it more and more each time.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.