Post by Remx
never ever underestimate hemo.... anyone who has played since pretbc should know that even if u are daggers spec, u are still gonna have to use some form or non-directional attack, pretbc it was SS cos we had to have 2/2 imp ss to get to imp BS.
The only reason why people used SS as backstab specs such as 21/8/22 pre-TBC was because it allowed for a stunlock. Stunlocks are no longer solid now that every class has at least one way of getting out of a stun. Modern day backstab spec'd rogues have no reason to be sinister striking (unless in the context of a raid as a combat daggers spec where an attack from the rear is not possible) as it's a waste of energy.
With pure shadowstep spec, u don't have points in imp SS, making it unviable as an intermediate non-directional attack. Hemo on the other hand, is ez to get and only costs 35 energy.
You should never hemo with a dagger, non-directional attacks are no longer needed as intermediates in modern backstab specs.
try this:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fhecoxZZEzcc0GRoxstYou took cheat death over master of subtlety...
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0xfoxZZErccMGRcxothttp://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ecoxZZErccMuRcxotThose are both more viable specs.
or u could try combat mace/hemo, which is getting exceedingly popular:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhfVbrVt00MRZxrI0MGRohttp://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhbEzbVt0M0RZxrfoMuRobhttp://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhdVbrVt0M0RZxrfoMuRohAgain, both of these are more viable.
Post by Remx
never ever underestimate hemo.... anyone who has played since pretbc should know that even if u are daggers spec, u are still gonna have to use some form or non-directional attack, pretbc it was SS cos we had to have 2/2 imp ss to get to imp BS.
The only reason why people used SS as backstab specs such as 21/8/22 pre-TBC was because it allowed for a stunlock. Stunlocks are no longer solid now that every class has at least one way of getting out of a stun. Modern day backstab spec'd rogues have no reason to be sinister striking (unless in the context of a raid as a combat daggers spec where an attack from the rear is not possible) as it's a waste of energy.
With pure shadowstep spec, u don't have points in imp SS, making it unviable as an intermediate non-directional attack. Hemo on the other hand, is ez to get and only costs 35 energy.
You should never hemo with a dagger, non-directional attacks are no longer needed as intermediates in modern backstab specs.
try this:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fhecoxZZEzcc0GRoxstYou took cheat death over master of subtlety...
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0xfoxZZErccMGRcxothttp://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ecoxZZErccMuRcxotThose are both more viable specs.
or u could try combat mace/hemo, which is getting exceedingly popular:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhfVbrVt00MRZxrI0MGRohttp://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhbEzbVt0M0RZxrfoMuRobhttp://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhdVbrVt0M0RZxrfoMuRohAgain, both of these are more viable.
Im lost as to your point of view, im talking about pvp, not raiding, if u are planning on raiding in shadowstep spec, there is a problem lol.
2nd, do u arena much? I do, and what i can say is, shadowstep isnt the best spec for arena in TBC, its a little gimped compared to say, combat mace spec /hemo with dirty deeds. or combat mutilate. But the op asked for opinions on shadowstep spec and i gave mine. Having sed that, why cheat death over master of subt? this just shows how much u know about arena fighting.
Let me make one thing clear, 1 or 2 shotting is none existant in high end arena, u add MoS + SStep with ambush, or SStep + MoS and backstab, maybe on a mage, ull get him down to 65-70%, thats it, no more. which comes to my main point: As a rogue, even in 2v2, moreso for 3v3, and even more fr 5v5, you spend 90% of the time out of stealth, if u say u can strategiclly camp in stealth in arena, or pull restealth or vanish stunts like in duels, waiting for energy recharge etc, your teammate(s) will be dead by then. So i need not explain the uselessness of MoS. Cheat death on the other hand, 100% passive with 1min internal cd. The ability to avoid a blow that would kill you, do u know that if u have 4k hp, and a pyroblast crits you for anything more than 4k, you completely avoid it? Meaning u still retain 4khp, if you have 2.5khp and are below 20%, a warrior's execute will be completely avoided, AND u get pain suppresion for 3 seconds! if u cant see how this is more useful that MoS, im 100% sure u dont arena at all, at least high end arena , 1.9k + rating.
Regarding your 2 specs, in turn i ask you, "you take a 4-6% increase in AP over 4% stam and 2% agi?", do u know how much ap a rogue has in full s2 arena gear with s2 weapons? I wont say s3, i dont have enuf s3 pieces to know that yet. In s2 u have a whole whoppin 1.3-1.4k ap, lets see... thats a 46 - 80 increase in ap, which translates into about 5 dps at best, which is... 13 weapon dmg? thats not much at all. Compared to 6% increase stam which gives a rogue in full s2 arena about 500 more hp, and 10 more agility.
2nd, you take weapon expertise... for? Remember, we are talking pvp, not pve, its virtually useless in pvp., and again, u take 2% more ap over a 2% increase chance that a range atk or spell will miss you... Now im so sure that u dont arena much at all...
Try this...
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhfVbrVt00MRZxrI0MGRoI honestly have no idea how you construed my post as being relevant to PVE.
I've arena'd weekly since their release and have had at least one 2k+ team for the majority of the first two seasons. I'm not inexperienced.
It's not about bursting your opponents to zero in a few seconds, but it's important to be able to throw out as much damage as you can in a short time period so as to put pressure on the enemy healers and possibly overwhelm them. That's assuming you're not given the task of keeping a healer out of commission or some other duty. Master of subtlety is amazing for this when using vanish offensively, especially in the 3s and 5s where you can run with 3 DPS and 4 DPS teams respectively. Cheat death may save your skin once a match but it will only be available when you're near death, might only do so temporarily, and isn't going to be utilised in every match like master of subtlety will. Some people may prefer cheat death, but I consider it the less practical option.
Weapon expertise functions in PVP exactly the same way it does in PVE. It's not weapon skill. I'm guessing you're just reciting outmoded rhetoric because you don't actually know what it does.
Deadliness > vitality for hemo builds.
My personal build has 2/2 heightened senses, but the more commonly used ARPrep builds only have 1/2.
Before arguing these points any further I suggest you expand your horizons a little and keep up to date with what is happening with the rogue class. Read the official rogue forums daily, it seems you've still got plenty to learn.