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Ret Pala sucks/PvP Frustation
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Post by
Gnostik
You say your highest burst is 5-7k. But your forgetting you have a passive seal every time you hit the target, that adds up allot. Plus you then have ranged judgments after they get out of range. 5-7k isnt small damage anyway.
Then you have bubble and sacred shield giving you a power word shield every 6 seconds. You have incredible utility and immunities dispels that no one else gets on top of this.
Ret paladins have nothing to complains about, they need a nerf in my view to make them require a brain.
Valer is addressing the issues, unlike most of the "you suck" and "QQ more" posts. What the OP has yet to do is offer any good evidence that Ret Paladin burst is behind other classes. I think you are getting the response you are, OP, because whether in BGs or arenas most of us have been on the receiving end of incredible Ret burst. You can't blame someone for basing their views on their own experiences.
It just seems to me like you are suffering from grass is greener syndrome. Even if Ret burst was sub-par (which it's not) you still have so many other tools: offensive AND defensive dispel (this alone is huge), the only class in the game with an invincibility bubble
that still allows you to keep attacking
(can't stress how enfuriating that is, and I don't care that there are two counters, it's still incredibly powerful), instant heals (would love this on my Ele), plate armor (minor perk), passive damage absorb shield, snare immunity buff (again still powerful even after it's diseplled - oh, and that whole "hard to dispel cuz of all the other spells on the target" argument you made? well you yourself have lots of other spells to protect BoF from being purged, whereas my Shaman doesn't have any cover for Flame Shock. So I guess you have it better there, don't you?). I could go on but you get the point: you have a vast array of tools that no one, or almost no one else in the game has. Comparing classes against one another is apples and oranges.
I'd also like to return to another point I made: playing melee in PvP gives you a huge built-in advantage. I can see that you don't play any casters so you probably don't realize this, and it's contributing greatly to the grass is greener syndrome. You don't have to worry about counterspells and interrupts every time you go to do damage. You don't have to worry about a target moving out of LoS while you are casting. If you get silenced you can still smack stuff for a few thousand damage per hit. (Do you have any idea how frustrating it is to have a melee run up and hit for 2k white damage? They had to do NOTHING for that damage except right click me and stay in range. Casters have no equivalent "free" damage, so count your blessings.)
Your assertion that Ret burst isn't comparable to Frost Mages, Shamans, DKs, is just false on the face of it. The only class you don't stand up against is a Destruction Warlock. But NO ONE DOES. Destruction Warlocks are in a class by themselves when it comes to burst, and should not be used as a point of comparison. But if you think Frost Mages have it so easy setting up their burst combos, or that Lava Burst is the be-all end-all, well, it just makes it clear you haven't played these classes and don't understand what
their
problems are.
Finally I'd like to point out the irony that you are complaining about being underpowered, yet boasting of a 2k+ arena rating. Obviously you aren't
too
gimp....
Post by
233368
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
chase123
I agree, paladins should go back to how they were last year when they could kill 5 other players simply by smashing their face on a keyboard. Back to when they could kill someone in less that 3 seconds. Back to when they could kill a full pvp geared player while wearing greens.
Or we can accept that paladins as they are now are fine. Let me take that back. Remove bubble and then paladins are fine.
Post by
Squishalot
You say your highest burst is 5-7k. But your forgetting you have a passive seal every time you hit the target, that adds up allot. Plus you then have ranged judgments after they get out of range. 5-7k isnt small damage anyway.
Then you have bubble and sacred shield giving you a power word shield every 6 seconds. You have incredible utility and immunities dispels that no one else gets on top of this.
Ret paladins have nothing to complains about, they need a nerf in my view to make them require a brain.
Valer is addressing the issues, unlike most of the "you suck" and "QQ more" posts. What the OP has yet to do is offer any good evidence that Ret Paladin burst is behind other classes. I think you are getting the response you are, OP, because whether in BGs or arenas most of us have been on the receiving end of incredible Ret burst. You can't blame someone for basing their views on their own experiences.
I've actually done the math in the past on the Paladin forums demonstrating that a PvE geared Ret Pally can't roflstomp someone during a Hammer of Justice like people keep suggesting, much less a PvP geared one. Unfortunately, people like Valer continually ignore the mathematics behind it and insist that somehow, Paladins can stun, lolstorm you down and silence you when you break out, before dropping beacon'd Holy Light bombs on their side. And somehow not run out of mana. I'm waiting for Valer to actually come up with a reasoned argument, not just a "yeah, but you've got this, and you've got that".
A lot of the reason why people QQ about it is because they wear low-stam, zero resilience equipment into BGs. Unfortunately, if you take PvE gear into a PvP fight, yes, it really is just about who gets the biggest chain of crits off earliest, and Paladins have the advantage
in melee
with plenty of instant-cast attacks.
But if you're going to compare all PvP evenly, you also need to give consideration to the number of times that a Paladin starts off getting frozen in place at 36 yards by a long-range Frostbolt, and consider how likely it is that he's going to even lay a hammer on the mage.
If all you're doing is standing in place waiting to be hit, then yes, you deserve to be pwned. A lot of people just sit there waiting to be killed, because they think that they can't kill a Ret Pally. That just speeds up the process.
Post by
Squishalot
I have a four year old daughter that QQ's less then some people on these forums.
Is that why you have a ret pally? I imagine it may require some skill for a four year old...but hitting 123 over and over, i don't know...
Why do you think the FAQ thread in your class forum says "HURF DURF" at the top? LOL
Wow, lol. Not sure how to respond to that, lol. Ret pallies use 1,2 and 3? Lol. I got to v.80 and destroy people in every BG and Arena, solo Ulduar and do For the Alliance alone...all with my ret pally and never used more than one button. I just hit, "I.W.I.N" constantly and win every battle. I never knew it was so complicated to be a ret pally.
Good on you for remembering to socket your +win gems.
Post by
305323
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Eleazer
I generally stay away from QQ threads about a class I have relative no skill or experience past lvl 70 playing. Yes, I am one of the few who can succeed with a complicated class, but can't play a caster or pali worth spit. I just started playing arenas for the first time since BC, so my experience is limited to BG's and beginning Arenas. I just read this entire thread, and had some brief comments to make in regards to the thread.
1. Ret Paladins lost a lot of burst when they were nerfed, however they are easily one of the most survivable classes if played well. The problem is a lot of the ret pali's who didn't start playing till WoTLK made them super human have no idea how to play without the burst. Anyone remember ret paladins in BC? They were a huge joke, not only did they have to outgear you, but they were the weakest pvp class out there. So they learned to pvp survival style, it was use everything or die quickly. You can tell who the old-school ret pali are, because they bubble at the right time, divine storm you at the appropriate time, and know how to survive your cooldowns.
2. Ret Paladins cannot burst you down in one stun unless you have less than 18k health at which point you should not be pvping. However, they can still drop me to 20 percent health in one stun, and then kill me off as soon as I come out of stun. Is that OP? Nope, because any smart rogue/druid can do the same. And any shaman will blow you up before you ever get to them. Besides it's not more OP than enhancement shamans dogs, I hate those things, HUGE Burst a stun, and heals the guy.
3. Lava Burst is Incredibly powerful, but it offsets the fact that elemental shamans are the easiest thing to kill in BG's and Arena's outside of a fire mage. I have been hit with a 9k Lava Burst, but I was stupid enough to let him get it off. It's really hard (read stupid) to get hit with both Flame Shock and lava Burst without being aware that a Shaman is about to unload on you. Shamans are always the first target in Arenas because their Heroism Burst Damage is incredible that coupled with the fact that they shatter like glass when focused means they have to die quickly or you are screwed.
4. The QQ about ret paladins is a lot like the QQ about DK's it's based on what you run into while leveling (both classes are over represented pre 80 and incredibly powerful until then) and not high end pvp and arena. I rarely run into a very skilled paladin at lvl 80 and when I do he is either Holy or Prot/ret. When I do run into a very good ret pali, I just stun him up and Cyclone him until Divine Storm wears off. When he bubbles I run away and heal than come back and beat on him. Running from a ret pali is easy because they have no ability to catch up if they are low on mana ;p.
Post by
478052
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
2. Ret Paladins cannot burst you down in one stun unless you have less than 18k health at which point you should not be pvping.
Finally! Someone else who actually appreciates this fact!
Post by
368371
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
487505
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
R1TeR
Simple fix, reroll DK
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