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Resto druid talent advice
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Post by
241152
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Noxnoctem
Tranquility only affects your party members and not the entire raid.
It should be obvious what to pick.
Post by
241152
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
skribs
Your spec is fine. A lot of the talents people argue over are argued over for a reason - there really isn't a "best" way to spec. Part of the problem is HPS is hard to measure accurately (it depends on the other healers, the encounter, and whether or not your raid stays out of the fires) and with HoTs its difficult to tell if those HoTs merely provided a buffer or if they actually saved lives (particularly Living Seed).
As long as your spec has
this
you're fairly well off (that point in Living Seed is filler in the "mandatory" spec). You could go for something like
18/0/53
for Regrowth spam,
11/0/60
for raid heals, or what I use is
14/0/57
for combination of tank heals, AoE heals, and PvP.
What you have to do is understand your playstyle:
Are you tank heals, raid heals, or hybrid?
Do you spam Rejuv, Regrowth, or Lifebloom for blanketing the raid; or do you use a mixture?
Do you use Regrowth or Nourish for single-target, or do you use RG then nourish?
Are you geared to a point where one talent really wouldn't help (e.g. with a lot of crit and Nature's Bounty, you can keep real good up-time on Nature's Grace even without Natural Perfection, so NP may not be as helpful).
Do you need Revitalize or would it just be a buffer? Does your raid need Revitalize for extra damage or threat output?
After looking at all those, decide on a spec that works for you.
Post by
MegaVolt
http://www.wowhead.com/?forums&topic=102999
I wrote that before Empowered Touch affected Nourish, that's why that talent isn't listed for the optional ones. The base build is still the best you can get and the optinal points can be distributed according to personal preference.
I'm currently running with:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#0VG0uZZf0fuduxiuVGsVo
And sorry to say that but your builds are aweful scribs :(
The GCD cap on haste is low enough, speccing into haste should never be necessary and Regrowth is not a spell that should ever be spammed.
Speccing into Tranquility is always a waste.
Never mix PvP and PvE, it's made of fail.
There is no reason to put 3 points into Sublety, it's just taken because we have to waste 2 filler points to get to the higher tier talents.
Post by
Noxnoctem
, or what I use is
14/0/57
for combination of tank heals, AoE heals, and PvP.
No. That's what Dual-Spec is for. Spending talent points into
PvP
talents
is a waste for a PvE healer especially when you're not using the
manadatory PvP glyph
which means you're not getting the full benefit of Barkskin. If I were you, I'd put the extra points into
Revitalize
and 1 point into either
TS
or
ET
.
Post by
329396
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
skribs
Nox, Dual-Spec allows 2 talent specs. If I want say a Feral DPS or a Boomkin spec, and I want to heal in PvE and PvP, I have 3 options - give up one spec, do a lot of respeccing, or hybridize the healer spec. If they had unlimited specs, or even just a greater number of allowed specs, your arguement would be valid. But unless you want to dedicate both specs to Resto, and you do both raiding and PvP as a healer, a hybrid spec isn't a bad thing.
Improved Tranquility is useful when you're leveling up, or trying to get geared after hitting 80, because its really useful in heroics if you're an undergeared healer. However its really not that useful in raids, not even 10 mans, since it only affects people in your party.
This is why it's not mandatory, but particularly the "imo" highlights why it's optional. Tranquility only affects your party, but a BS+Tranq can keep your party up and let the other healers (many of whom would use party-based or smart heals) hit the other 4. I rarely use tranq, but I can see it being useful.
The important thing - get the basic spec, fill out as best you can. Once you have that, it comes down more to gear and skill than your specific spec. Like I said - I have 2 points in a PvP talent. Despite that, I was one of the best healers in my last guild (slightly worse geared than most of them too), and its because I knew my class.
Post by
MegaVolt
This is why it's not mandatory, but particularly the "imo" highlights why it's optional. Tranquility only affects your party, but a BS+Tranq can keep your party up and let the other healers (many of whom would use party-based or smart heals) hit the other 4. I rarely use tranq, but I can see it being useful.
You don't need to have it talented for that. The threat shouldn't be an issue anyway so all you get from the talent is the lower cooldown. And if you rarely use tranq anyway the cooldown doesn't matter anyway.
It's not only that tranq. is (almost) useless. Additionally the talent to improve it doesn't really do anything useful, even if you occasionally use tranq. The only time you ever want to take that talent is if you plan to spam tranq - but then you have a problem with your healing anyway ;)
Post by
Noxnoctem
Nox, Dual-Spec allows 2 talent specs. If I want say a Feral DPS or a Boomkin spec, and I want to heal in PvE and PvP, I have 3 options - give up one spec, do a lot of respeccing, or hybridize the healer spec. If they had unlimited specs, or even just a greater number of allowed specs, your arguement would be valid. But unless you want to dedicate both specs to Resto, and you do both raiding and PvP as a healer, a hybrid spec isn't a bad thing.
I full well know that dual-spec means two, thank you for your insight.
If you're serious about PvP then you would have a spec dedicated to PvP. Full stop. Gimping your dual-spec tree to try and fit 3 just because you'd like the option to fit a Boomkin spec aswell isn't the most efficient thing to do. 2 talent points doesn't seem like much but it's 2 talent points that you could have spent tightening up your healing for PvE making it that little bit more efficient and easier.
However, I assume you do have the gear for feral or boomkin or whatever you would like as OS. I mean it costs what, only 50g for a respec? If you have the urge to Feral pewpew for a week or even a day just respec and play with the most efficient build possible. Not some questionable eyebrow-raising talent tree in which you would like to dabble in a little of this and a little of that.
Post by
468639
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
skribs
However, I assume you do have the gear for feral or boomkin or whatever you would like as OS. I mean it costs what, only 50g for a respec? If you have the urge to Feral pewpew for a week or even a day just respec and play with the most efficient build possible. Not some questionable eyebrow-raising talent tree in which you would like to dabble in a little of this and a little of that.
Yes, those 2 talents could be used to better fit a "PvE" spec. But you know what? I've only found 1 healer on my realm who can out-heal me, and I'm far from the best geared. My conclusion? Those 2 talent points aren't hurting me so much.
You seem to me to be an elitist, which usually means 1 of 2 categories:
Type 1: You're in one of the best guilds on the realm and are one of the best players in your class. You know every encounter and dont really screw up because its simple to you.
Type 2: You read ElitistJerks and think you know everything, and you exclude everyone who doesn't min/max because you want to blaim anything that's slightly off from cookie-cutter perfect for any problems you see in your games. (i.e. if you wipe, its not because you stood in the fire, its because the person next to you had 2 optional talents spent in a different spot than you would have).
I'm a theorycrafter, but I understand that the numbers need a reason to be validated. Yes, my reason is a hybrid which detracts from both PvP and PvE. However, I am rarely paralleled in heals in BGs; and my PvE healing has as of yet only been passed by one. Moving those 2 talents isn't going to change that in PvE, but it will actually hurt me in BGs. So I'm going to go against the Elitism for the sake of enjoying the game.
50g adds up if I do all 3 in the course of a day, and I usually do. I'm looking then at using my off-spec solely to farm to pay for the respecs, at which point what's the point in having it?
Post by
Noxnoctem
Close but not quite.
If you knew my and my playstyle then I would fit in neither type 1 or 2 of your elitism category, but however I will accept the fact that I make mistakes. I've stood in the fire occasionally, I've screwed up with my heals etc. So has everyone else, I'm sure you have too as pro as you are. The fact is that a player wants to have the best spec possible. Do you know why? So it is removed from the equation that equals to the chance of failure:
variable Skill + variable Gear + variable Talent Tree = variable chance of failure/success.
Not very mathsy I know but you should be able to see that if you have the best possible talent spec for the particular situation, in this case healing PvE, then you can effectively remove it as a variable which in turn decreases chance of failure, (i.e the raid wiping). So you know in your mind that you knocked out at least one variable that can work against you when fighting that s.o.b Anub'arak.
variable Skill + variable Gear = decreased chance of failure/increased chance of success.
I trust cookie-cutter builds not because I'm a lolelitist but its because they're cookie cutter for a reason. They're designed to make healing as easy as possible. Most of the time 2 talents do not really matter, but there may be at one point in time when you're a healing a bloody tough instance in which it will matter, which will save you or another player. That's the point I'm trying to put across.
Of course, I can't deny the fact that if you enjoy the game with your build then all the power to you. We are here to play the game and have fun. But for me having fun is beating tough raids therefore I want to make sure everything I have; my gear, talent tree and my skills are enough to accomplish this. Don't confuse elitism with trying to succeed.
Edit: Minor grammatical errors.
Post by
skribs
Even so, those two talent points aren't going to result in too great an amount of healing elsewhere. Let's say I put them in revitalize - that would help our DPS slightly in certain groups, and it would help our healers. But if our healers rarely OOM, and our DPS isn't lacking - the problem is that people stand in the fire and die, then it doesn't matter if I had revitalize or not.
If DPS is a problem, but we're 2 min behind the enrage timer, a slight buff to energy isn't going to help. If healers are going OOM 2 minutes into the fight, a slight amount of regen isn't going to help. If you assume 1 talent is 1% effectiveness (not always true, but I believe they try to balance it close to that), 2% isn't usually going to make or break a fight.
If 2% does, that means that I needed 1 extra cast, or I needed to heal for 5100 instead of 5000, because the next would overkill for 0<x<100 the other way. It's very unlikely that this is going to be the problem, and chances are you won't notice an issue. Of course, every lost % adds up, and if you do
this
you're going to be hurting your raid and they will feel it.
Honestly, if that 2 points is the biggest liability to the raid, then that's quite a good raid. If it isn't, then there's other things to worry about besides 2 optional points not being utilized in the cookie-cutter fashion.
Post by
Noxnoctem
Fair enough.
However, let's say the 2 talent points do have direct 2% increase in effectiveness. This isn't a big deal for someone who is a damn good healer, the 2% will not be much at all, as that someone knows how to conserve mana and prioritise heals. However, take a Resto Druid who's relatively new to Raid Healing. A resto druid who doesn't really pay attention to the 5 second rule and is still learning the ropes. Any improvement that they exhibit is magnified because they are on a learning curve. The 2% increase in effectiveness suddenly becomes a 5% increase in effectiveness and thus raid longevity.
As I mentioned before, cookie-cutters are there because they are the definition of efficiency, they're a good crutch to players and do help more so than a build that isn't cookie-cutter. If you're an excellent player, you're free to move around talent points as you see fit. Your skill and knowledge will more than make up for it. However for the vast majority of players, every little bit of help is welcome, and I would not say no to some raid utility in the form of free energy/mana/rage.
One last thing, once 3.3 comes out, would you take the cookie-cutter spec or your own pvp/pve hybrid spec to defeat the Lich King?
Post by
MegaVolt
Even so, those two talent points aren't going to result in too great an amount of healing elsewhere. Let's say I put them in revitalize - that would help our DPS slightly in certain groups, and it would help our healers. But if our healers rarely OOM, and our DPS isn't lacking - the problem is that people stand in the fire and die, then it doesn't matter if I had revitalize or not.
If DPS is a problem, but we're 2 min behind the enrage timer, a slight buff to energy isn't going to help. If healers are going OOM 2 minutes into the fight, a slight amount of regen isn't going to help. If you assume 1 talent is 1% effectiveness (not always true, but I believe they try to balance it close to that), 2% isn't usually going to make or break a fight.
I don't know about you but I have been in situations quite often in which we either beat or fail the enrage timer by just a few seconds. Best example: The week before we finally downed Algalon we failed on his enrage with 7k (!) HP left before he would have turned neutral. Every oh-so-small damage buff would have taken care of that.
We also failed at Anub 10man heroic a few times with less then 1-2% hp left back when we still struggled with that one.
When making progress with your guild every bit of damage can count. Most of the time it won't - but occasionally it will.
Post by
340332
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
skribs
Glyphing and Speccing HT is dumb anywhere but PvP - you're bringing the cast down below the GCD (a waste on anything but instant) which actually reduces the HPS you'd get out of talenting it. Glyphing it also makes it less HPM, which is not what you want in a raid environment.
Not to mention most talents that affect HT (except naturalist) affect Nourish, and Nourish can get 25% bonus crit. Only reason its nice in PvP is because its the quickest direct heal you can get. Even then, I dont think its worth it.
However, what you said in your first paragraph is correct - there is no real "correct" cookie cutter. The spec I linked could be considered "cookie cutter" but then its leaving out 9 points and one point can be moved (2, if you cound moving 1 from Sub into Tranq Spirit). If you spam Regrowth, Nature's Grace is incredible. If all you ever do is blanket instant HoTs, then NG sucks. If you use a mixture, NG is a decent talent. If you use Nourish, then Empowered Touch is very nice. If you use Regrowth then Empowered Touch Sucks.
Nature's Grace, Empowered Touch, Natural Perfection, Living Seed, Revitalize, and Improved Tranquility are all optional talents for PvE. Some swear by certain talents, others abhor those talents. Some people may go for Imp Barkskin to help on certain fights (faction champs, especially pre-nerf comes to mind). It also helps in those times when you know you're going to need damage reduction - any time heavy AoEs hit I pop BS.
If you ask me, though, with the changes to Gift of the Earthmother in the next patch, I think
Regrowth
will be quite popular - with the Glyph of Rejuv actually being the Glyph of Swift Rejuv (the one that makes it benefit from haste). That particular build would benefit from haste and crit (which allows you to get higher level items without feeling like you wasted a stat), allows you to choose whether you blanket the HoT or spam the direct portion, and missing Glyph of Swiftmend won't hurt if you plan to just reapply the RG after SM for another direct heal and then a refresh of the HoT.
Post by
340332
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
skribs
The heal will be exactly half of what it was. If you drop the cast time from 2.5s to 1.0s, you're actually dropping the effective amount you can cast to a 1.5s speed due tot he GCD. Half would be 1.25s, which means you're doing less than half the HPS. Not to mention you're only cutting the mana cost by 25%, which means you're reducing HPM by about 1/3 once you translate that over.
You could instead go with 0 points in Naturalist, and save 4 points to use on better talents.
25% crit means 25% chance to proc Nourish or Living Seed. With a fair amount of haste; and with Nature's Grace, you'll see your Nourish down to almost a 1 sec cast anyway.
Having your main big heal at gcd means you dont need to spec into NG too, so thats more points saved. It will be interesting to see what levels of haste are required to make a serious change to the rejuv tics too. It may be that with a HT build it will be possible to make do without 5/5 in GotEM too, freeing up yet more points. (nb: I think this is unlikely!)
Here's your mistake. The GCD is 1.5 seconds. It's only 1.0 sec for Cats, Rogues, and DK's in Unholy Presence. With enough haste it can be brought down to 1.0, but that's haste rating - not a reduction in cast time. Reducing the cast time by a static amount instead of increasing haste by a % has NO EFFECT on the GCD.
Yes, you are right, glyphed+specced HT is the fastest reliable heal. But raids are designed to be capable with all the other heals. I haven't been in a situation yet where if I used a glyphed HT instead of a nourish my target would be alive. They usually take way too much damage or I'm simply healing someone else - neither situation would it have helped.
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