[Resto] 14/0/57 or 11/0/60

Post by Addams

The cookie cutter resto spec in Wrath has always been 14/0/57 but recently i've noticed 11/0/60 is popping up quite often, what are the differences between the two ?

Post by Felet

Nature's Grace is the difference, it's not really needed if u roll hots and don't spam Nourish/Regrowth. If you have Nature's Grace, imo you will need Living Seed

Revitalize or Nature's Perfection are often the talents people skip to get Nature's Grace.

Post by 349759

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Post by QuestionC

Empowered Touch is currently probably a better talent than Nature's Grace.

Revitalize has been a compelling talent ever since it was attached to Wild Growth.

We're just running out of talent points.

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Post by LookOut

they won't add new talents, but normally they will change the current talents.

Well, they are bound to do it for warlocks and paladins/warriors/dk's anyways, with the change to soul shards and making defense like Survival of the Fittest for all tanks...

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Post by QuestionC

pls tell me why ppl do spec for nourish as a drood?

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Terenas&n=Vacu&group=2

It's not possible to not spec for Nourish. We have too many talent points. You know Nature's Grace is basically just a Nourish talent, right?

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Post by MegaVolt

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Spinebreaker&cn=Rahapa&gn=Seventh+Plague

I would never spec Naturalist or Revitalize for end game raiding.

For 1 if your using Healing Touch EVER your fail sauce as a resto druid. Regrowth is way better in that it has a nice initial hit and then you have a HoT rolling afterwards.

2. If you need to have the Revitalize talent something is wrong with your tank or dps to need that little boost from you IF it even procs for them. When raiding they should be able to manage their mana, rage, energy, etc on their own. Check out the post on the talent itself http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=48545#comments.

And yes i specced into tranqility.I did that because of the nourish benifit. Nourish is a great spell and Im very happy to finally have a FoL type spell like priest or pallys.

Any comments would be nice if you disagree but make sure you have legit reasons why. Also ill be taking my improv tranq talents and moving them to empowered touch, but only for the nourish benefit.

If you value Nourish so much then you just have to get Nature's Grace. It's the by far best buff to Nourish you can get. You are also missing Empowered Touch which is a nice Nourish boost.
Improved Tranquility is useless, a complete waste of talent points. You will never use it and it does exactly nothing for you.
Subtlety is a complete waste. You usually put points there since there simply is no other place to put them and you need to reach the higher level talents somehow. Never ever should you max it. Healing just doesn't produce enough threat to be worth it.
Tranquil Spirit is crappy. As soon as you get to decent gear levels mana stops being an issue and the minor reduction for Nourish isn't worth that many talent points.

Revitalize isn't taken because it's awesome. It isn't. It's taken simply because all other talents are completely useless and it's simply the next best way to waste the points. All those talents above that you wasted points on are even more useless then Revitalize.

So: Get as many points out of Tranquil Spirit as possible. Get points out of Subtlety. Get points out of Improved Tranquility.
So what to do with your remaining points now? You should have 7 free now.
You said you like Nourish so take the Nourish boosting talents ... 5 total for Empowered Touch and Nature's Grace.
Leaves 2 points and no good place to spend them. Either go for 2/3 Natural Perfection (minor crit bonus for your Nourish) or 2/3 Revitalize (minor mana/evergy/runic power boost for your group).
I'd go with Revitliaze. Yes, group members should be able to manage their rage and their mana. But you can never have enough energy and runic power. More of both means more dps and Revitalize provides that. Once I get 4t8 (Rejuvenation can crit) I'll move those points.

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Post by hashmel

frankly blizz likes nourish, blizz wants us to use nourish, blizz buffed nourish till it kicked ass and the reason people spec for nourish is because blizz made it kick ass

14/0/55+2
toss the last 2 in imp barkskin, imp tranq, or revitalize and make blizz happy that nourish is so kickass

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Post by defektunge

2. If you need to have the Revitalize talent something is wrong with your tank or dps to need that little boost from you IF it even procs for them. When raiding they should be able to manage their mana, rage, energy, etc on their own.
It's not that they need it, but rather that it's a nice boost to the raid. Not a lot per member, but it's going to be procing a lot. A rogue doesn't need the extra energy to do good DPS, but the extra energy does add DPS. And increasing raid DPS is good, as it helps the raid defeat bosses.

In the end, that is your job: not to heal people, not to keep them alive, but to defeat the boss. The only reason you're keeping all those people alive is because of the DPS and tanking they can do if kept alive. The choice of Revitalize vs whatever comes down to which you think will benefit the raid more: extra rage/energy/mana/RP or the damage/tanking/healing of the people you can only possibly save with the desperate help of those last few talent points spent on something healing-related.

Yes, a DPS surviving will result in more damage in that fight than Revitalize, but how often will those 2-3 points spent elsewhere realistically make the difference between life and death for someone?

Post by skribs

Revitalize - at 8 energy per proc, if you have 100% up-time on WG and Rejuv on a rogue, it's got basically a 20% chance per second to proc (15% for WG and 15/3% for Rejuv, 20% chance), which means the rogue will get 1.6 energy per second. At 40 energy per basic attack (I believe after talents and/or glyphs, backstab, mut, and SS are all 40 energy - I could be wrong though) that means it will be 25 seconds per additional attack. And IIRC from the other post I read about Revitalize - rogues are the best use for it.

I'm not saying Revitalize is bad - just that it's an optional (instead of mandatory) talent. As to then why people would choose 14/0/57 over 11/0/60 - if you ask me, both are good. They seem to be 2 different playstyles - style A (the 14/0/57) is going to use regrowth and nourish more; whereas style B will focus on other abilities. Style A is going to be better for spot-healing or tank-healing; whereas style B will be better at being a hot-buffer (e.g. spam hots on all 3 tanks) or raid-healer.

My personal style is style A - I like using all of my abilities (for example, when I played a resto shaman, I was one of the few who actually used both LHW and HW depending on the situation instead of choosing one or the other like most do) - and this style works great in smaller instances (such as 5- or 10-man) where I am always going to be one of the main healers. However, one of the best druids I have seen plays style B, where he only uses instant casts - doesn't even regrowth unless its NS'd. That style is great for 25's, where you want to supply the raid with HoTs and let the other classes focus on direct heals - however it's going to get tough in 10-mans or especially 5's if the tank takes a huge burst (of course, if you're 3-healing you could still end up being supplemental, and in 5s chances are you outgear them pretty fast).

So I dont think one is better than the other - much like its hard to say what class you should go with. But since I am type A, I will spec for it - if that's not how you play, then dont.

Post by 219211

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Post by skribs

The buff from 2 resto druids = 1/4 the buff from 1 replenishment. Meaning for 3 talent points on their own thing, you're going to be getting 1/8 the effect that a DPS class will get from a talent considered mandatory to their spec. This stacks, yes, but that's just perspective.

I'm not saying Revitalize is bad, I'm just saying I dont think its good enough to warrant "mandatory."

It's not that they need it, but rather that it's a nice boost to the raid. Not a lot per member, but it's going to be procing a lot. A rogue doesn't need the extra energy to do good DPS, but the extra energy does add DPS. And increasing raid DPS is good, as it helps the raid defeat bosses.

I do agree with this, and that's why it is a useful tool if you have it. However, unless you run with the same group every time, then what Sticky said is true - people are likely to have set up their class assuming Replenishment and Wisdom/Spring, but no Revitalize. As such, its great when they recieve it - but they should be able to manage without.

While 3/3 Revitalize may do a lot for your raid, 3% crit does more for you. Most raids will not look at what particular talent was chosen (e.g. if the raid leader is a warrior, they'll see "resto" and as long as you do your job not notice) and don't look at special effects - they look at DPS, Damage Done (%), HPS, and Healing Done (%). If you push yourself farther up in HPS and Healing Done, it makes you look better - which makes people want to run with you more. Nobody blames slow DPS on the healers (unless they let people die), so from a politics standpoint (unless the particular group does check) I'd say revitalize isn't as good of a talent.
While the crit may not affect most of your hots - it affects swiftmend, regrowth, nourish, HT (useful for pre-casts or for NS+HT combos), which I can imagine at least swiftmend and regrowth being used even if you opt out of nourish. For tank healing, I can see nourish being used more - and thus the crit is useful.

I'm not trying to say you're an idiot for choosing revitalize, or that you're an idiot if you go without it. What I am trying to say is that it's not as great as some make it out to be and its not as horrible as others say - its a mediocre talent that's good as an option, but its more based on preference and what you need than on solid cookie cutter.

[Resto] 14/0/57 or 11/0/60

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