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PvE Healing Builds - Critique Please
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Post by
skribs
I read through the stickies and I've talked with my friend (one of the few people I know who can actually do decent HPS on a priest) and I know my own playstyle, so I've come up with some builds I think will work for me. However, as I like to have a lot of input, particularly after I've come up with an idea, I'd like to see what you think.
The goal here would be to dual-spec, one spec for raid heals and one for tank heals. I've got alts for DPS, and a well geared healer can quest just fine (I've got a PvE and PvP resto spec for my druid). So I would not need to worry about raid heals much on a disc priest or about tank heals on a holy priest - although obviously tank heals would be helpful for times when raid isn't taking much damage on an otherwise raid-heavy fight. My priest isn't yet 80, but I like to "learn" the class before I hit 80 so I have a fairly good idea of what to do when I'm there. That way I'm not one of the people doing 1/4 the HPS of someone only slightly better geared than me.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bVcbhZfE0cbMqih0euA:0dfzcV
My AoE Holy build. Pretty much ignores Greater Heal as I wouldn't want to spend that much time casting on one person and am likely going to want to use Serendipity on a PoH instead of a GH (although I can see myself swapping those points from Spell Warding if I feel the GH helps with spot-healing). So much spent on renew because otherwise renew is pretty much worthless (at least when you compare it to a single HoT from a Resto Druid - and they can stack HoTs unlike a priest) and I was going to have to put a talent point in either Imp or Emp renew as filler anyway (dont like filler unless I will use it to some extent).
Skips Lightwell because the people that would need it wouldn't use it, and vice versa (e.g. those who stand in fires are less likely to clicky the well). Skips Divine Guardian because I rarely use cooldowns unless they give me mana. Other than that, should be fairly obvious why I chose what I did.
Primary heals are PoM, PoH, Circle, and FH (most likely with a Surge proc), although Renew won't be very bad off.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bVcbuhhVRIsffRtbezc:mAbzcV
My tank-based Disc build. Again, I ignore GH but for a different reason this time - between Imp FH and Glyph of FH I would spend less mana on FH's than I would on the same cast time in GHs. As you can tell by the Glyph choices and the fact I skip imp Renew, I would be focusing on single-target direct heals and PW:S in this spec.
Does this seem about right to you?
Post by
OscarDivine
My priest isn't yet 80, but I like to "learn" the class before I hit 80 so I have a fairly good idea of what to do when I'm there. That way I'm not one of the people doing 1/4 the HPS of someone only slightly better geared than me.
While the specs look alright, I would encourage you to PLAY your class at lvl 80 first before theory-crafting about how your spec will accommodate your play-style. Try some of the encounters that you will be using your spec for and you might find out that you really want something you haven't got... Like
Guardian Spirit
or
Body and soul
.
It actually took me a month of raiding to realize how amazing it is to have BnS and use it properly.
Post by
skribs
Well, "learning" before 80 worked real well on my resto shaman. I'd never healed on my shaman and I popped into Naxx (this was back when Naxx was the big raid, except for Maly and Sarth+Ds) and blew away all but 1 of the healers we'd had healing for 2 months - who'd been healing in TBC and were better geared than me. But that's how I work.
Of course, after hitting 80 and getting some experience, I refined my tactics - but they didn't change much. And, since I have experience on both the Resto classes, I can apply that knowledge to how I'd heal on a priest. Not saying I disagree with you, but I dont agree with you either - learning before I hit 80 makes a big difference after.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect. Therefore do not practice until you know what perfect is, so you know what to work toward.
Post by
309579
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
OscarDivine
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect. Therefore do not practice until you know what perfect is, so you know what to work toward.
Great philosophical take on it really, but honestly you're not really using a lot of the tools that priests have to offer from what it sounds like. One of the reasons we can be such a great class is through our versatility of spells.
You can't learn how to do it all with one spec. If you're REALLY learning, you'll change your spec a few times to see what works best for you overall.
This doesn't mean that you can't start learning early, of course you can. One other thing that sets Holy Priests apart from other healers is the flexibility of our talent tree. Learn what you like by using it. Don't learn what you should use so you can like it.
Post by
skribs
Overall, impressive :D seems like you know your class pretty well without being 80 (definitely better then a majority of the people who make "help me not suck" threads)
Well, my philosophy on forums is that they are there to help people learn. If I am to come in and say "what is the best spec" I already know what will happen - 3 people will complain that the question is answered in the stickies, and then a few people will answer regardless of the fact I'm too lazy to look it up for myself. However, my take is that you get from a post what you put into it - when I'm helping someone else, I want to see they've done some work and I'm not just spoon-feeding them information (if I wanted to do that, I'd write a guide).
Reason I went all-out on renew is I dont really see a reason to use renew without going all-out on it; and a filler point is going to end up in imp renew at some point; so I might as well go all out on it. Reason I went for the other 2 glyphs are because those are what my friend glyphs, and my friend does insane heals (we have a deal - I teach him the resto's and he teaches me the holy's). According to him, FH isn't used much when raid-healing unless he's got a surge proc, which makes it free - the glyph then is mute (10% of 0 is 0). PoH should almost always crit on one target, so its very easy to have Surge proc quite often.
He does say he goes through mana faster than most priests, and he and I both tend to gear for spirit as we do burn a lot of mana (speaking as a druid here).
Thanks for the input though, it is appreciated.
Post by
karlusdavius
Renew for starting priests is brilliant, it can really help you in heroics, once raiding high end content however, it juat doesn't cut it as your ticks will get sniped.
You don't need inner focus at all. I wouldn't bother with a talent point there.
Body and Soul is a pvp talent at heart, it has minimal use in a raid environment and if you rely on it to down a boss then your dps need to increase there spatial awareness.
If your going for renew then i suggest taking point out of Empowered Healing and into Blessed Resilience as it gives an extra 3% to all your healing spells which includes renew for heroics.
Put on of those points out of Empowered Healing into Guardian Spirit and replace the renew glyph with the glyph of Guardian Spirit. Its excellent in any healing setting as you can pre cast it before a pull, making sure your not going to loose your tank. It's a must have!
Start to stack haste up to 10% (i don't know your armory or what level your at yet, you might have hit 80!) as it will benifit you in heroics having a slightly faster cast time.
Other than that, your set for holy and have a good ideology on what you want and talents needed.
Discipline is standard :)
Post by
292117
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Post by
309579
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Post by
skribs
I dont get how you got that he's only casting PoH if he has 2-3 Serendipity from Surge Procs. What I said was he mainly (not always, mainly) uses FH after Surge procs, and he gets Surge procs from PoH or CoH due to the great chance you'll crit when healing 5-6 people. His primary spells are CoH and PoH.
Post by
309579
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Post by
387103
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
309579
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
karlusdavius
renew based healing is for heroics and naxx content. it has its uses elsewhere, but were really critical raid healers at heart. We don't do the constant healing a druid does, we do the, OMG he didn't move out the way! kind of heals. Those moments really make the great priests shine from the ok priests.
Post by
Ztrange
Renew for starting priests is brilliant, it can really help you in heroics, once raiding high end content however, it juat doesn't cut it as your ticks will get sniped.
You don't need inner focus at all. I wouldn't bother with a talent point there.
Body and Soul is a pvp talent at heart, it has minimal use in a raid environment and if you rely on it to down a boss then your dps need to increase there spatial awareness.
If your going for renew then i suggest taking point out of Empowered Healing and into Blessed Resilience as it gives an extra 3% to all your healing spells which includes renew for heroics.
Put on of those points out of Empowered Healing into Guardian Spirit and replace the renew glyph with the glyph of Guardian Spirit. Its excellent in any healing setting as you can pre cast it before a pull, making sure your not going to loose your tank. It's a must have!
Start to stack haste up to 10% (i don't know your armory or what level your at yet, you might have hit 80!) as it will benifit you in heroics having a slightly faster cast time.
Other than that, your set for holy and have a good ideology on what you want and talents needed.
Discipline is standard :)
You've got a few things backwards.
Renew ticks won't be sniped any more than rejuvenation ticks will, and with planned healing assignments you'll pull off more HPS than you'll ever do with any other playstyle.
Body and Soul has alot of uses in raid encounters where there's movement. There's a reason to why speed enchant on boots is rated higher than other enchants.
If you're going for full renew, you should have both Emp. Renew and Blessed Resilience. If you Renew you should utilize it when you can instant heal with it as well as preheal incoming damage.
However, playing the "druid priest" costs alot of mana, not mana efficient in any way. The Renew playstyle is not worthwhile, or needed, until heroic ToC content or some Ulduar hardmodes where you've got predictable raid damage at all times. Doing it in Naxx content will only make you run out of mana. You're better off going with the CoH, FH fillers and pre-casted PoH until you feel like you've got more mana than you can spend.
Post by
309579
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Post by
karlusdavius
Are you really suggesting a priest-druid hybrid could out HOT a well played resto druid? It MIGHT push out some-what decent hps, but spamming renew isn't utilizing all of the tools a holy priest has to offer. That being said, this is a game, and your play style is your own choice, but advice like that is going to gimp the OP's heals in the long run
exactly what he said. Using renew in high end content means that while one tick might go off, and maybe another, it rest will get sniped. we are critical, fast healers. I say naxx because people just don't take that much damage in there anymore. Heroic ToC doesn't scream out for renew what so ever as I'm too busy pulling all my other spells out the bag to even consider it. So saying that its backward is over exaggerating quite a bit.
Body and Soul is still a primary pvp talent. My point was that it really shouldn't be needed and if you start shielding the same person over and over in order for them to get the hell out the way, then your probably carrying them. and what happens when he doesn't get that shield and starts screaming at you? Or if the discipline priest comes in the pre shields, you just lost 2 talent points of effectiveness. Its more hassle than its worth.
Don't do druid-priest play style. Yes your HPS will be high, but your actual healing wont be. and thats what we do best, critical healing.
Post by
Ztrange
Are you really suggesting a priest-druid hybrid could out HOT a well played resto druid? It MIGHT push out some-what decent hps, but spamming renew isn't utilizing all of the tools a holy priest has to offer. That being said, this is a game, and your play style is your own choice, but advice like that is going to gimp the OP's heals in the long run
No, I'm not saying you can "out-hot", I'm saying with Renew as your filler instead of Flash Heal, in a fight with predictable raid damage, you will. Try keeping Renew up on two groups while having CoH and PoM on cooldown, then ditch my advice.
exactly what he said. Using renew in high end content means that while one tick might go off, and maybe another
No, this is not how hots work, the one who ends up sniped could be anyone, it depends on the raid damage. Neither class have the luxury to time the hots according to the raid damage, and in a fight where you rarely have people at 100%, neither will be sniped. If you're worried about getting sniped, check out your usage of flash heal instead.
Don't do druid-priest play style. Yes your HPS will be high, but your actual healing wont be. and thats what we do best, critical healing.
You can argue all you want that critical healing is what priests do best, but a combo of this critical healing and hots will outperform your flash heals. But if you want to sit on the bench just because a druid keeps taking away your "critical healing", fine with me.
Post by
387103
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Post by
Paolo
There's no arguing with success.
I beg to differ
. I can succeed in heroics by spamming Holy Nova. That might be fun, but it certainly is not a habit I'd want to develop, nor a playstyle I'd want to recommend, nor something that will ever work in any sort of stressful content. "This works" is not necessarily "this is correct." My example is obviously extreme, but I use it to make a point.
Hence: One can indeed argue with success.
Otherwise, I have nothing of substance to add to the conversation at hand, as I'm disc, and never rely on Renew. It's up on the tank as a weak insurance policy only.
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