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Protadin tanking is... redundant?
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Post by
Breadzilla
I really can't understand protadin tanking, now the major way to get mana is by getting hit and taking in heals, but there are also tons of protadin abilities reducing damage taken, increasing block chance, etc. but wouldn't this lessen your damage, lessening the amount you take, and finally lowering the heals you get providing you with less mana?
In case you didn't get that
less damage taken = less heals = oom protadin
Could someone please explain this to me?
Post by
dumac
look on prot talent tree, you will understand then how we get mana back.
Post by
Breadzilla
That wasn't exactly helpful but I think you are referring to
Spiritual Attunement
, yes?
If you are, then that is where my whole question lies.
Post by
Nakama
Actually, he's referring to
Guarded by the Light
. As long as you're swinging, you're getting back 25% of your mana over 14s, and it's constantly getting refreshed. Between Spiritual Attunement and Guarded by the Light, you really shouldn't ever be totally out of mana.
--Jed
Post by
Breadzilla
Oh, awesome, thanks for the clarification.
Really never noticed that talent, kind of explains a lot. :)
Post by
65116
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
273977
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
dumac
wasn't my intention to be helpful, i was giving you the tool to figure it out yourself. If you really had looked on the tree you would understand what i was making as a point.
Anyways nak got it right and i also refered on Bosanc, Spirit attuntment is good but on some fights you will go out of mana if you only got that.
THe points was revealed now, recommend you look on the sticky thread on more questions in the tanking. Most of the info is already on it.
Post by
Squishalot
Most tankadins who know what they're doing won't run out of mana. The others should turn away from Blessing of Kings.
One thing that's been bugging me though - as off-tank, how hard is it for you guys to keep your mana levels up? All we've got is a Divine Plea that never runs out, and Seal/Judgement of Wisdom - do you find that this is actually enough?
Post by
299221
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Wizerd
Most tankadins who know what they're doing won't run out of mana. The others should turn away from Blessing of Kings.
One thing that's been bugging me though - as off-tank, how hard is it for you guys to keep your mana levels up? All we've got is a Divine Plea that never runs out, and Seal/Judgement of Wisdom - do you find that this is actually enough?
When I'm off-tanking, Divine Plea more often than not keeps up with my mana usage because if I use any more mana, I pull threat. It's about the perfect level of mana gain for a just-under-MT job provided the MT isn't a Paladin. And if the MT is a Paladin, you don't need to ride his threat anyway, since he'll be far ahead of the DPS. Keep your mana levels in check and be ready with HoSalv if a DPS without a threat-drop is creeping up.
Actually, he's referring to Guarded by the Light. As long as you're swinging, you're getting back 25% of your mana over 14s, and it's constantly getting refreshed. Between Spiritual Attunement and Guarded by the Light, you really shouldn't ever be totally out of mana.
I've seen this 14 seconds number a few times, and I don't get it. Divine Plea ticks every 3 seconds, at 12s, 9s, 6s, 3s, and 0s (as it fades, provided there was refresher during it). Where does 14 seconds come in? If you have DP up for 2 minutes, it ticks 40 times, not 42-43 times like a 14 second figure would imply.
Am I completely missing something?
Post by
svirve
Divine Plea
. Has a 15 second duration. It ticks every 3 seconds.
DP consists of 5 ticks each restoring 5% of your maximum mana.
The first tick is at 12 seconds than 9, 6 ,3 ,0.
The reason (this is completely speculation) to why it doesnt start ticking as soon as you cast it is because this would give you an instant 4,1666666666666666666666666666667% mana pot. Making it kinda imba with a /cast, /cancelaura macro.
The only reason i can think of as to why people would think it has a 14 second duration is because when you cast it, it will start at 14 seconds on the buff bar. This is because it never has more than 15 seconds of duration so the fraction of a second it takes for it to go from 15 to 14.9999999... makes it look like it has a 14 second duration instead of 15.
It's a matter of people thinking they're cool and can learn things by doing and not by reading.
Post by
292117
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Mileron
The only reason i can think of as to why people would think it has a 14 second duration is because when you cast it, it will start at 14 seconds on the buff bar. This is because it never has more than 15 seconds of duration so the fraction of a second it takes for it to go from 15 to 14.9999999... makes it look like it has a 14 second duration instead of 15.
All buffs/debuffs/spells with a duration in WoW consider the 0 (zero) second to actually be a second. So DA has a duration of 14-0 seconds, which is 15 seconds.
This is especially noticeable if you use a buff time mod other than the default Blizzard offering.
You can see this when you cast fishing lures, Mark of the Wild, Blessings, etc.
Post by
svirve
No 14-0 is only 14 seconds though it's 15 numbers. There's a VERY big difference.
It works differently when it shows minutes. Then it's the other way around. 4 minutes could be 3 minutes and 1 second.
14 seconds can be 14.99999 seconds.
And how would it be any different if you dont use the default blizzard buff timers?
14.999 seconds will still show as 14 seconds unless the author of the addon is born backwards or something.
Edit:
Actually what you're saying is that when counting down from 10 to 0 it's actually 11 seconds and not 10.
Do you really believe that?
Post by
Thrombin
Damn im only lvl 65 :( need 6 levels more for divine plea...
I have dual specced my holy pally and have tanked the first 3 outland instances, but have some mana issues...
i use 10 mana pots in a run, cos of my mana. i think i have invested in stamina too much...have over 10K HP but only 23 regen. Someone told me that regen isnt neccesary for pallys, and i guess hes right?
i have tried some alterations with auras seals etc, but have to test things further...i guess ill have to deal with it till 71 ;P
I do think, sometimes, everyone just assumes that we're all level 80!
I'm level 66 and I'm in the same situation. I used to have no mana problems but, since about level 50, I've had more and more things to spend mana on and nothing extra in the way of mana regen. In fact, now I have Seal of Vengeance, there's a big incentive not to use Seal of Wisdom which was the usual way I got mana back if I was strapped.
I usually manage to avoid going OOM before the end of the fight but I always have to stop to drink these days.
I know people say you should fight more mobs to pull more mana from Blessing of Sanctuary but at my level you've got to balance that against the staying alive part!
Of course, I could just use spells less often but then the fight takes longer and it wouldn't be nearly as much fun. So I guess I've only myself to blame :D
Regards
Thrombin
Post by
Squishalot
I'm level 66 and I'm in the same situation. I used to have no mana problems but, since about level 50, I've had more and more things to spend mana on and nothing extra in the way of mana regen. In fact, now I have Seal of Vengeance, there's a big incentive not to use Seal of Wisdom which was the usual way I got mana back if I was strapped.
Nothing stopping you from using Seal of Wisdom. The fact that Blessing of Kings is now for all pallies is a big incentive not to use Blessing of Sanct, but it doesn't make it any less insane to do so if you're running out of mana. I tanked exclusively using Seal of Wisdom and BoS until Divine Plea came out, and had no trouble laying down a healthy stream of Consecrate.
As long as you keep your avoidance high and Holy Shield up at all times, BoS should be enough. If you're worried about dying, then it's likely you're not equipping enough 'of the Champion' gear and simply taking too many hits. At level 66, I had a defence level of over 400 (around 440 or so I think, not sure how much defence rating that took me). Plenty of avoidance and block, and plenty of mana recovery as a result.
All buffs/debuffs/spells with a duration in WoW consider the 0 (zero) second to actually be a second. So DA has a duration of 14-0 seconds, which is 15 seconds
Note that you can see the '0 secs' on the (de)buff timer as well. That's because WoW will round down the timer - so when it gets to 0.5secs remaining, it will say '0 secs'.
svirve has it right. Counting between 0 and 15 will give you 15 seconds. You regenerate 25% of mana over 15 seconds, being 5% mana over 3 seconds as follows:
0.000001-3 secs: 5%
3.000001-6 secs: 5%
6.000001-9 secs: 5%
9.000001-12 secs: 5%
12.000001-15 secs: 5%
If it doesn't show '15 secs' on the buff area, it's because the game refreshes quickly enough that you'll never see the buff in the split second when it is exactly 15 seconds.
Post by
Thrombin
Nothing stopping you from using Seal of Wisdom. The fact that Blessing of Kings is now for all pallies is a big incentive not to use Blessing of Sanct, but it doesn't make it any less insane to do so if you're running out of mana. I tanked exclusively using Seal of Wisdom and BoS until Divine Plea came out, and had no trouble laying down a healthy stream of Consecrate.
As long as you keep your avoidance high and Holy Shield up at all times, BoS should be enough. If you're worried about dying, then it's likely you're not equipping enough 'of the Champion' gear and simply taking too many hits. At level 66, I had a defence level of over 400 (around 440 or so I think, not sure how much defence rating that took me). Plenty of avoidance and block, and plenty of mana recovery as a result.
Thanks for the tips. At the moment my gear selection is pretty much a question of which one Tankpoints reckons is better, although I do prefer avoidance to stamina if there's not much in it:
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Darkmoon+Faire&n=Jezzelda
The main reason I worry about dying is because I usually end up soloing dungeons that are too high for me! I've tried Scholomance a few times but after about 6 deaths I tend to call it a day :D
When I'm not soloing I team up with a Feral Druid (same level as me) who heals while I tank. Some of the fights are pretty touch and go but I usually manage to keep myself alive - if not always the Druid!
We did Hellfire Ramparts a couple of days ago and I only died once. I'm not sure I could have afforded not to use Seal of Vengeance, though. I lost threat a few times as it is.
Regards
Thrombin
Post by
trojahn
I really can't understand protadin tanking, now the major way to get mana is by getting hit and taking in heals, but there are also tons of protadin abilities reducing damage taken, increasing block chance, etc. but wouldn't this lessen your damage, lessening the amount you take, and finally lowering the heals you get providing you with less mana?
In case you didn't get that
less damage taken = less heals = oom protadin
Could someone please explain this to me?
I'm far from a pally expert (I just started mine) but I thought I should just add a lil info here, completely ignoring the other answers :)
Check out this if u have the chance:
http://us.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Area+52&cn=Badnamed
By far not the best pally around but I can guarantee that I've been tanking and soloing dungeons with that build and I usually end a fight with, at least 80%, of my mana. The only thing that makes my mana goes down is the actual absense of enemies (when they start to die).
Usually I AOE solo having BoS, Wisdom Aura and Righteous Fury... I try to maintain Holy sheild up as much as possible and I get a nice plus from Reckoning and Redout... As u can see, at some point I have more than 70% block rating and that is what gives mana... Not damage... Due to BoS, each block gives me 2% mana back...
Post by
pezz
Sorry, Wisdom Aura? I wish I had that spell on my Holy Paladin, whatever it is.
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