This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Classic Theme
Thottbot Theme
Prot build... would this one be viable?
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
Wildhorn
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZVGzIx0zggoZVfx0hMzb
I wonder if this would be a viable prot build. (btw this build totaly remove the need to bring a ret paladin :P)
Post by
blademeld
i'd say that would be viable up to regular instances, or maybe some of the easier heroics
but you threw away the avenger's shield for Sanctity aura
that's bad
AW&AS = one badass threat lead
plus you don't have weapon expertise nor ardent defender = bad for raid tanks, and bad for AoE trash tanks
but that's my opinion, you
could
be successful with that build, but i won't recommend it
Reasoning:
yes 10% threat increase (since 2% your group will benefit as well) is pretty sweet, but paladins don't have insta-aggro attacks other than the judgements.
so no one is going to wait for you to generate the extra threat you would have had with AS in time sensitive encounters such as gruuls
it's much better if you just have a ret paladin in your group.
Post by
104825
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
blademeld
No offense but that build is outdated
reckoning, spell warding, precision and
guardian's favor
but no
combat expertise
anywho, 1 point in toughness = 200-300 AC, that's ~0.5% damage reduction per point.
toughness is one of those talents you don't really need, but is very good to have
for me, I would rather put them in Persuit of Justice for 3% damaging spell hit reduction
Post by
Lasthitlarry
Figured it would be better to reply than to make a new topic.
Uchihaz: That build is missing Combat Expertise, and I'm not a huge fan of Guardian's Favor, Spell Warding, or that many points in Toughness or Reckoning.
blademeld: I agree on -3% spell hit, I will eventually spec into that once I start heroics, probably trade my Imp. Seal of the Crusader for it once we get a ret pally in our guild.
Main reason I am posting, I am actually considering a new build:
https://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZVhuIx0zRgqtVfx
My guild and I are preparing for Heroics and Kara, so the next few weeks I will be tanking lvl 69-70 regular instances and figured this would be decent with the +3% crit chance on ALL attacks, make fights go a bit quicker.
EDIT: I have roughly 9600-9900 health and armor, 11% block, 150 spell damage, unbuffed
Post by
blademeld
Here's my personal build.
Comparing the builds:
Reckoning vs Toughness
I'm a more of a min/max person, but 1 point doesn't matter much.
Ardent Defender vs Crusader and Improved Retribution Aura
I believe you shouldn't need Ardent Defender in heroics;
definately not in regular instances.
I have Crusader for 3% more damage and 3% more threat.
Improved Retribution Aura is for instance rushing and AoE tanking.
Improved Seal of the Crusader vs Deflection and Pursuit of Justice
Seal of the Crusader benefits from focus fire;
most trash, I AoE tank, hence, the loss of effectiveness of focus fire.
I have Deflection for raiding purposes.
Pursuit of Justice helps with a protection paladin's biggest weakness:
spell damage.
It also allows me to round up mobs for AoE tanking.
Am I saying your build is bad? No, not at all; CC and FF tactics work best for a beginner and yours fits right into that.
Should you ever try to copy my build? No, I wouldn't recommend it, unless you had a very good grasp of the mechanics and dedication to 5-mans and lower rather than raids. It also helps to have a dedicated healer with my build style due to the lack of Ardent Defender.
Why did I show you my build then? To show you how to compare different talents and how to mix and match for your customized game-play. Your build is excellent and I think you'll do very well.
-
Regards,
blademeld
edit: I guess you changed your build while I was refining this post as it no longer has vindication
edit 2: 9600 HP, 9900 AC, 11% block, 150 spell damage? I would consider doing more regular instances before you start heroics.
edit 3: I thought you were doing heroics... not regular instances... -proceeds to change comments-
Post by
Lasthitlarry
Yep, I am sure you were replying before I editted my post, I realized Vindication doesn't work on bosses, so that's out, and the main reasons I would keep 1 point in Reckoning is mainly so I can AOE grind a bit faster (true, they won't all fall at the same time) as well as tank (1 point shouldn't proc too much on bosses)
After I get really good gear and start doing heroics and Kara, I will more than likely spec into:
https://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZVhpIx0zMgqtVbx0h
I will definitely not close the book on talent specs after looking at your interesting build, however.
Thanks for the reply.
Post by
blademeld
Why not to spec for Improved judgement for raiding:
This point is arguable, but:
Holy Shield cooldown is 10 seconds,
Judgement & resealing is 10 seconds,
hence the cycle balances out (Holy Shield, then Judgement and Seal after GCD)
however, as soon as you spec improved judgment, the cycle is disrupted
is it worth it?
lots of theorycrafting behind that...
Post by
Lasthitlarry
I'm not much into theory, I just know that Holy Shield takes priority over all. From a dummy stand point, with Imp. Judge you get 10 judges in within 80 seconds, versus 8 without it, however you will lose 1 of the 10 due to the cooldowns meeting up (right?)
(Unless I am terribly at fault here, I judge crusader and pop SoR, that means 1.5 seconds later I can pop Holy Shield)
~~SoR~~
1.5 GCD
1.5 Holy Shield
----Enjoy your free time
10 Judge
10 SoR
11.5 Holy Shield
---------------------------etc etc
OR
~~SoR~~
1.5 GCD
1.5 Holy Shield
----???
8.0 Judge
8.0 SoR
----Profit
11.5 Holy Shield
---------------------------etc etc
The real mix up is when you include Consecration into the fold, then you have another variable to deal with.
---After spending time on this post, I realize how useless it is, and I apologize.
Post by
blademeld
It's not really useless, and I would spec for it anything less than raids, but... yea...
too much math for me with HS, seals, consecration....
Post by
holypally
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZVGzIx0zggoZVfx0hMzb
I wonder if this would be a viable prot build. (btw this build totaly remove the need to bring a ret paladin :P)
Unlike holy and retribution build, you cannot have a hybrid build on protection skill tree. Except for Improved HoJ and Improved Devotion Aura, other talents are vital to you.
And i find your comment is quite wrong: your build does not remove the need to bring a retribution paladin. Not even close.
Sorry, i have to say that your build stinks. (if you are raiding, heroics, or even ordinary instances. PVP? worse. Maybe PVE or solo grinding will use this build)
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZVGzIx0zggoZVfx0hMzb
That is my common tanking build. I tanked for Karazhan, Zul' Aman, Heroics, and even 25 man raids such as Gruul. And for Dark Temple, this is the only build that paladin can actually be the main tank. (no offense to warriors, you guys are still the best)
Post by
blademeld
Unlike holy and retribution build, you cannot have a hybrid build on protection skill tree.
You can have a hybrid holy or retribution in a raid that are effective? lemme see >.<
And i find your comment is quite wrong: your build does not remove the need to bring a retribution paladin. Not even close.
I think it brings in the important parts that a retribution paladin brings, 3% crit and 2% damage done (10% holy)
although it lacks crusader strike
solo grinding will use this build)
I can agree on that part
Post by
holypally
Well in raid/heroics/25 man , i do not encourage hybrid build. Hybrid build comes in when you wanna have a raid/pvp or pvp/pve. In fact, paladin are not supposed to hybrid. (other classes i will would not comment on that)
Frankly speaking, i have only specced 95% holy 5% prot for my arena and Battlegrounds. I am not boasting, but i have the top 3 healing rate score every battle.
As for the raids and instances, my spec = 100% protection. I am currently the main tank in my guild.
Long story in short words, paladin specialise. Do not generalise or have a hybrid build. It kills your teammates' confidence.
The main juice in a retribution pally is not 3% (yes it is in raids, but do you actually need that? Shaman's totem have the same effect. 3 points in Improved JoC is better off spent in other skills)
Damage is not needed in raids for paladin. As a tanker, you need to generate the largest threats in raids and keep it constantly flowing. As a healer, you need to have the highest healing score in raids and keep your mana constantly flowing. As damage dealer in raids (if your guild allows) with such build is a sissy.
Main juice in Retribution pally (i mean in raids) are Vengence and Fanaticism.
Crusader strike is good only if the patch changes has launched. 6 sec cooldown is a boon too.
Post by
39703
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
blademeld
Main juice in Retribution pally (i mean in raids) are Vengence and Fanaticism.
The problem you see here is that he was referring to a tankadin being able to keep the debuff and sanctity aura on, not DPS... that's where the issue came in.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZVGzIx0zggoZVfx0hMzb
That is my common tanking build. I tanked for Karazhan, Zul' Aman, Heroics, and even 25 man raids such as Gruul. And for Dark Temple, this is the only build that paladin can actually be the main tank. (no offense to warriors, you guys are still the best)
This statement makes it very unconvincing that you actually have tanked
1) you linked the wrong build
2) you gave gruuls as an example to 25 man raid.. that's a minor feat
3a) Black temple, not dark temple... and the first guild to clear it used a warrior
3b) The paladins who tanked BT and linked the screenshots used a 0/49/12 build
4) you credited warriors to be the best tank... a big no no
My personal preference: Strength enhances shield blocking rate. Since protection paladin is specced in shield blocking, so it would a good supplement for him.
5) /facepalm
Post by
blademeld
A dead tank doesn't generate any threat, which is the major problem with that build.
QFT
Post by
holypally
Main juice in Retribution pally (i mean in raids) are Vengence and Fanaticism.
The problem you see here is that he was referring to a tankadin being able to keep the debuff and sanctity aura on, not DPS... that's where the issue came in.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZVGzIx0zggoZVfx0hMzb
That is my common tanking build. I tanked for Karazhan, Zul' Aman, Heroics, and even 25 man raids such as Gruul. And for Dark Temple, this is the only build that paladin can actually be the main tank. (no offense to warriors, you guys are still the best)
This statement makes it very unconvincing that you actually have tanked
1) you linked the wrong build
2) you gave gruuls as an example to 25 man raid.. that's a minor feat
3a) Black temple, not dark temple... and the first guild to clear it used a warrior
3b) The paladins who tanked BT and linked the screenshots used a 0/49/12 build
4) you credited warriors to be the best tank... a big no no
My personal preference: Strength enhances shield blocking rate. Since protection paladin is specced in shield blocking, so it would a good supplement for him.
5) /facepalm
It seems my post are a bit messed up (i apologise) My spec = 61 wholly protection build.
1. Why is it a big no no for crediting them?
2. Okay, shield blocking value.
3. Did i say my build is the only one who tanked in BT EXCLUSIVELY ? Did i argue that my guild is the first to clear the BT using warriors/paladins? I merely said that with my build, a paladin CAN main tank in BT.
4. I gave gruul as an example only. Of course i tanked for the other 25 man raids as well.
although i made a mistake on the link and Black/Dark mistake, but please read my post well. I did not boast on BT thing, mind you.
Post by
blademeld
It seems my post are a bit messed up (i apologise) My spec = 61 wholly protection build.
Planning to fix it anytime soon?
1. Why is it a big no no for crediting them?
If you
seriously tanked
, you would know that there is no such thing as a "best tank"
3. Did i say my build is the only one who tanked in BT EXCLUSIVELY ?
Yes, yes you did
this is the
only build
that paladin can actually be the main tank.
4. I gave gruul as an example only. Of course i tanked for the other 25 man raids as well.
Then gruuls is a bad example as it's the lowest 25 man
I would like to request an armory link
I am not boasting, but i have the top 3 healing rate score every battle.
out of?
arena = 4, 6, 10
WSG = 20...
healers make up ~5% of the grouping at that as well...
The main juice in a retribution pally is not 3% (yes it is in raids, but do you actually need that? Shaman's totem have the same effect. 3 points in Improved JoC is better off spent in other skills)
please don't talk about think you don't know
shaman totem = 5 people benefit
ret paladin debuff = entire raid benefit
Post by
106896
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.