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Premed vs Vigor
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Post by
grade
With this current build:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fhxMoEzoiZZE0cs0GR0x
What would you take, premed or vigor?
I'm leaning more towards premed, but would like a second opinion.
Post by
pete007
the obvious choice here is premed.
Post by
96976
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Bluebadger
Siler L2English!
Post by
92157
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Post by
96159
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Post by
ruleofthumb
Premed vs Vigor?
Adrenaline Rush wins.
Combat for life!
Post by
dogoku
@ruleofthumb: out of subject. We get it, you like combat spec
@orcbane: you removed 10% attack power??? for sinister strike? and fleet footed? might as well get hemo, costs less energy, does pretty much same dmg with a dagger, save a talent point get a nice debuff
@grade: imp kidney > fleet footed
Wowwiki's proposal:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=ihecox0RiZZEMccMbR0xo
This is mostly pvp spec
Post by
Darcius
Premed is crap, what is keeping you from doing Sap->Cheapshot with a spin to prevent breaks, and restealthing? Nothing. Ghetto Premed>Premed, why screw yourself out of delicious Ambush->Gouge chains?
Post by
grade
Well maybe I should add some reason behind why I choose the talents I did.
Vile posions, because with the season 2 off hand and shiv, deadly posions will tick for roughly 300 and I've scored over 3k envenoms with vile posions. Not to mention if I choose to use a instanst posion over dp, shiv hits for around 250 and instant posions hit for around 200. Thats a rought 450 points of damage at the cost of 34 energy. Given it takes me a full 3 seconds to drain a full engery bar. That's almost 5 shivs with an energy bar. 5 x 450 = around 2550 points of damage. That's if not of them crit. With seal fate, one crits, I get another combo point. I have points to ks, rupture or cb envenom / Evis.
Yes you can agrue, but you only put crip on your off hand, but when you are running around with a warrior who hamstrings, kinda pointless. Gimp your dps less.
This build is mostly built for anti armor. Seeing as I have the most trobule with Ms warriors. Ghostly strike + evasion, yeah, I'll get hit by a 3k overpower every 6 seconds, but better then 6 3k white damage over the course of half a second.
I picked imp evis because of clothies where A) I don't have the time to apply 5 dps or B) they are dead before they have a chance to do anything about it.
No ruthlessness because half the time, with seal fate and 30% crit chance, I rarely don't have combo points.
Serrated blades, nice to have a little negative armor and the 30% extra damage to rupture is great to have against warriors.
No elusivness because in arena, cooldowns are free and rarley ever do you have a chance to burn a cooldown twice, with the expection of prep.
Also I went with premed, because with initative and seal fate, you have almost a 85% to start a fight off with 4-5 combo points and still be able to open with a ambush. And a 75% chance to open 4 combo points with a Garrote.
Post by
95723
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Post by
pete007
If you're doing arena you are not going to be able to do "ghetto premed" with cheap shot, that's only a dueling thing, and I do not spec for duels.
In arena the opener means LESS AND LESS because fights are becoming longer and longer. vigor will mean ~close~to~nothing~ in long arena fights but if you can ever get restealthed in arena premed is pretty powerful.
This fight has been discussed a lot on wow forums, you can review those threads and most high rated rogues will endorse premed before vigor.
Post by
Darcius
Excuse me, you want a dagger prep spec, and you dont spec for duels? You are contradicting yourself. Go spec Mutilate, it's arena viability has always been better than Dagger Prep.
Post by
pete007
Excuse me, you want a dagger prep spec, and you dont spec for duels? You are contradicting yourself. Go spec Mutilate, it's arena viability has always been better than Dagger Prep.
you do realize that 60% of high rated 5v5 and 2v2 rogues are combat? could this mean that combat is the most viable therefor you shouldn't even try to make your mut build arena viable? Mutilate should only be fore dueling at be something similar to 41/3/17
NO. that would be a stupid statement, kind of like yours. Premed>Vigor by far.
Post by
StrangerWifCandy
Combat lacks burst where Mutilate does not. Also the extra CP's so that it's possible to have an EA, SnD, and Rupture up practically the whole fight if you're left alone.
The only thing that makes combat any better than Mutilate is MACE stun (Notice how I don't make a ghost of a mention of either swords or fists). If you arena with a mage, druid, or priest, just to name some classes that are known to be very soft, maces is a very valuable investment, because those 3 seconds of stun really really help with kiting.
However, this has nothing to do with the OP's topic. I'd go with premed over vigor because there's no way you're going to win a long fight with that spec. You might as well just front load all your damage. Also, fair warning, with that spec, after your premed/cs/cb+evis/ks routine, your DPS drops so much that the points in vile poisons won't make any noticeable difference. It's either Wound/Crippling, or Deadly/Crippling, and without wound, good luck killing healers, but without crippling, you're not going to even be able to hit your target... hmm dilemma.
I used to be prep daggers, and it will not work on even s1 geared opponents. If all you're aiming to do is kill mages in AV though, be my guest and go for it.
Post by
Bluebadger
120 energy sin striek 4 times
Im asuming you meant Sinister Strike, which at minimum costs 40 energy. 120/40=3. Thats basic.
Post by
Darcius
I'm assuming that without assorted hax, due to global cooldown, the three sinister strikes would take three seconds and if you were halfway through a tick, you'd end up with enough energy for four.
Though I doubt that Orcbane put the thought into that, and probably simply made the obvious mathematical mistake you pointed out.
you do realize that 60% of high rated 5v5 and 2v2 rogues are combat? could this mean that combat is the most viable therefor you shouldn't even try to make your mut build arena viable? Mutilate should only be fore dueling at be something similar to 41/3/17
NO. that would be a stupid statement, kind of like yours. Premed>Vigor by far.
Due to my lack of the ability to find even near-decent partners, (Uldum is no Tichondrius) I hover around 1750-1950 rating where people's resilience is often low enough to make Mutilate on par, or in some occasions, superior to combat's sustained damage.
If someone is trying to use a dagger prep spec in arena, they could probably also benefit from the factors of being at such a rating.
Post by
87420
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Bluebadger
I really dont care for your 'In theory'. Who is gonna wait out of stealth (because if you were in stealth Kidney Shot>SS) for their energy to get to 120 then almost tick so they can SS someone perfectly so they can get a 4th SS with no down time? You wouldnt because its stupid. If they run away and youve only done 2 SSs or get killed/stunned on number 3 youve just lost out on quite a lot of DPS and maybe lost out on a kill or arena win.
Post by
87420
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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