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Possible good Arcane spec for PvE raiding...
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Post by
Silverado
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oixyc0fzxIuioV0h
Let me know what you guys think.
And what kind of spell rotation would be used to maintain good DPS but also be mana efficient as all possible?
Post by
nickseng
I don't claim to be any expert when it comes to PvE raiding, but I don't think you'd be using Fireblast that much when raiding to justify the points in Improved Fireblast. I'd drop some points into Ignite instead.
Post by
58327
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Silverado
I don't claim to be any expert when it comes to PvE raiding, but I don't think you'd be using Fireblast that much when raiding to justify the points in Improved Fireblast. I'd drop some points into Ignite instead.
I dunno, I was reading a bit on the subject on other sites/forums/etc and Fire Blast seems to be used as a filler for a little bit of burst damage in between Arcane Blasts and Arcane Missles.
Slow isn't a very useful in PvE in my opinion, but hell what do I know?
I heard in-game that bosses can be slowed, which benefits the raid...but not too sure since I have never tried it myself.
Post by
nickseng
I dunno, I was reading a bit on the subject on other sites/forums/etc and Fire Blast seems to be used as a filler for a little bit of burst damage in between Arcane Blasts and Arcane Missles.
The thing about fireblast is that it's range sucks at 20. You'd have to be pretty close to hit something with it. That's fine when you're levelling, but that's usually bad in a raid (I think). Most people, from what I've read, uses Scorch instead.
Besides, the talent only reduces the cooldown of Fireblast, which is not exactly the best way to maximize it's effectiveness. I think Ignite does more for it than Improved Fireblast will, IMHO.
Here's the
build
I'm going for with my Arcane Mage if you wanna see how'd I do it :)
Post by
Silverado
I dunno, I was reading a bit on the subject on other sites/forums/etc and Fire Blast seems to be used as a filler for a little bit of burst damage in between Arcane Blasts and Arcane Missles.
The thing about fireblast is that it's range sucks at 20. You'd have to be pretty close to hit something with it. That's fine when you're levelling, but that's usually bad in a raid (I think). Most people, from what I've read, uses Scorch instead.
Besides, the talent only reduces the cooldown of Fireblast, which is not exactly the best way to maximize it's effectiveness. I think Ignite does more for it than Improved Fireblast will, IMHO.
Here's the
build
I'm going for with my Arcane Mage if you wanna see how'd I do it :)
Yea now looking at your build, that totally makes sense. Aight, thanks :D
Post by
Stroopie
Well this is my build
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=obxE00czxIziZxg0zfZ0h
and I love it ^^.
Im arcane/fire, mostly use 5x scorch when the imp scorch is stacked then fireball away or use pyro or PoM pyro with AP+trinket. And the occasionnal Fire Blast ;-).
By doing this Im mostly second or third on dmg list (see my armory profile for the gear i have
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-reputation.xml?r=Hellscream&n=Elise
)
I recommend to use fire or frost with your arcane. Because Arcane Blast is a mana eater, very annoying to oom fast in raids, and so is Arcane Missilise (best to use AM with Clear Cast, yummy dmg then when crits ^^)
Post by
nickseng
Arcane Blast is a mana eater only if you spam it. It's one of the most mana-efficient spells if you use it correctly, and in the right rotation.
The key to a good Arcane build is spell rotations, and balancing Arcane Blasts DPM with DPS.
Post by
Silverado
What do you think a good rotation would be nickseng?
Post by
81900
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Silverado
So you're saying only use AM if you have a good shadow priest in the group? Why?
Also, what about normal 5 mans where a shadow priest isn't present?
Post by
k0rr
i dont recommend a deep arcane/fire build until you have at least 2 pieces of t5 for the set bonus and full spellfire, along with the appropriate level gear for the other slots to go with it. you should aim for at LEAST +1000 arcane/fire spell damage before taking this spec to be most effective.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oixVc00zxIuiZxxMzf
that build is for maximum dps in PvE, i.e. raids.
your 4 main spells with this build would be arcane blast (AB), arcane missiles (AM), scorch (S), and fireball (FB)
if the mob is arcane immune, then AB and AM would be removed from your spell rotation and you would mainly only use S and FB like a fire mage.
if the mob is fire immune, then your spell rotation would be AB, AB, AM, AB, AB, AM...
if the mob is not immune to anything, then your ideal spell rotation would be...
AB, AB, S, S, S, AB, AB, S, S, S... everytime you proc a clearcast, use it up with AM and only AM.
after having 5 stacks of scorch on the mob...then your spell rotation becomes...AB, AB, FB, FB, AB, AB, FB, FB, being sure to watch your debuff timers to refresh the 5 stacks of scorch, and still using up clearcasting procs with AM.
very few people understand the use of AB.
AB is at the same time, your most mana efficient spell, and your highest DPS spell, depending on how many debuffs you have when you cast it.
with 0 debuffs, it is the most mana efficient spell in your arsenal, and with 3 debuffs, it deals the most damage per second, with the high mana cost as a balance. another thing about AB is that, the cast time is determined at the time of cast, and the mana cost is determined at the time the spell is finished casting. So with 3 debuffs, you have a 1.5 second cast time, but if you start casting with only 1 second left on the debuff, the debuff will run out during the casting, and will only charge you 195 mana instead of 1043, but your cast time will be 1.5 secs, hence the AB, AB, S, S, S, AB, AB, S, S, S...spell rotation.
arcane potency (talent), gives you 30% increased crit chance when you cast a spell while clearcasting, this is applied to all 5 AM ticks (all 5 ticks have +30% crit chance), and thus is why you ALWAYS use AM on clearcasts.
contrary to the common belief, AM is actually the 2nd most mana efficient spell in terms of DPM in your arsenal (with the proper gear of course, read the first paragraph), because of the empowered arcane missiles talent. your arcane missiles gain about 180% of your spell damage if i'm not mistaken with that talent.
with the recent patch, imp fireball got its reduction coefficient removed, and thus is recommended, at least by me, to throw into your spell rotation.
scorch's main use is just to increase fireball and subsequent scorches damage, and to proc a clearcast for AM.
another key element to the arcane mage is the 40% reduced threat, and with blessing of salvation from a paladin, an arcane mage puts the rest of the DPS classes to shame, sometimes able to put up twice as much damage as other dps classes for the same amount of threat.
if a boss is under 10% and your cooldowns are up. try this:
evocation
trinket + AP + PoM + pyroblast + AB AB AB AB AB AB AB AB AB AB AB....with AMs on clearcasts. 30% increased dmg from AP along with trinkets and 20% from your t5 set bonus yields HUGE 5k+ crits. and a 5k crit every 1.5 secs is equal to about 3333 DPS...insane, yes.
Post by
88866
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
k0rr
i personally prefer arcane in raids because
1. fire mage - 5x scorch, FB, FB, FB....boring.
2. frost mage - FrB, FrB, FrB, FrB....boring.
arcane mage actually requires you to watch all your cooldowns, procs, etc. and is a lot more engaging.
i wouldnt want to play a class where you just spam 1-2 buttons.
Post by
Silverado
So Arcane is extremely gear dependent I see. So going Fire/Arcane would be a better bet until the gear is acquired.
Got a good Fire rotation?
I was thinking this for a spec....
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=of0VZvgMzfcIoxRt0h
Note, I may of spec'd that wrong in some points...but that's the reason I'm posting here and asking for help :D
Post by
nickseng
Arcane Blast mana cost a max debuff is 633 Mana, NOT 1043. Huge Difference :p
Here's a good page with detail info about
Arcane Blast
There are several thoughts on a good Arcane rotation for Boss fights. The one I like is starting the battle by spamming AB to burn your mana, then popping Evocation early on. That way, you should be able to get able to use another Evocation later on.
After the first Evo, your rotation should be AB, AB, AM, Scorch and repeat, with AM on Clearcasting (assuming no Shadow Priests). This is theoretically the most mana-efficient rotation, with good dps.
When the boss is down to 10-15% life is when you want start spamming your AB again. Remember, for an Arcane Mage, if you end a fight with mana left, you're not being effective.
As for why people keep playing Arcane, it's cause it's fun. :)
Post by
88866
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
k0rr
oh, yea, meant 633, :[
anyways, the recent patch removed the coefficient from improved fireball, therefore a 3.5 second fireball cast does just as much damage as a 3 second fireball cast. the talent basically only reduces the cast time now, and not damage. but i would still prefer arcane over fire just because of the 30% extra threat reduction from talents. a fire mage with salvation would have 40% reduction while an arcane mage with salvation would have 70% reduction, therefore still allowing the arcane mage to deal more damage.
of course if you have a tank that can generate ridiculous amounts of aggro, going fire is no problem.
and Dothorio, spamming AB AB AM is kind of a waste of mana imo, i like to throw a few scorch stacks and fireballs in there hoping to proc clearcasting for AM, especially because of arcane potency. If you have the lightning capacitor trinket off illhoof, your dps should increase significantly by using AM on clearcasts. if i have a clearcast, i'm sometimes able to kill a full life fire elemental on elemental plateau by with just one single arcane missile. one dead fire elemental, 0 mana points used. that is, if all 5 missile ticks crit, which can give you up to two lightning bolts from the trinket. i dont think theres any other class that can kill a ~8k health mob without using a single point of mana/energy/rage.
plus you cant forget good ol AP + trinket + PoM + pyroblast + AB AB AB AB AB till AP runs out...
i've hit a 22k pyroblast crit on curator before. should've screenshotted it.
and for silverado...
i would recommend this spec for deep fire...
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=of0VZxgMhfcI0eRt0h
reason i didnt get pyroblast and blast wave is because, i dont find myself using those spells very often. if called on to AOE i would mainly flamestrike, dragon's breath, frost nova, and then stand right next to the roots spamming AE. pyroblast, without PoM, is just way too long of a cast to be used often.
although...with the new talent in patch 2.3.2...
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=of0VZxgM0fcc0eMxbIM0o
would be a lot better.
but that's after the patch is released, of course.
Post by
88866
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
k0rr
2. AB -> AM was a huge waste of mana, but if properly set up it was also the highest possible DPS for a mage. You absolutely had to be in a group with a good shadow priest though. It's a moot point now though, since 2.3 patch nerfed the two things that made arcane spec viable: MSD meta gem and The Lightning Capacitor.
yes but if you don't have a shadow priest in your group it's not a great idea, though it works if you need high dps for the encounter (i.e. dragonhawk boss in ZA)
3. One of the main reasons for going arcane spec was the 10% hit from talents so you could focus on +damage and crit rating and easily reach the hit cap. Casting fire spells without enough hit rating is a sure fire way to get resisted. Once on Solarion I trinketed + AP PoM Pyroblast and crit her face off for 9300. Three minutes later I did it again and got a partial resis and hit her for only 1500. It's a real roll of the dice to cast anything other than the PoM Pyro at the end of your AP cycle as an arcane mage.
i never said using PoM pyro was the key part of the build, the key lies in of course the AB AB AM spell rotation. i just mentioned that because it's icing on the cake, who doesnt mind a 9300 crit (assuming no resists) every 3 minutes?
4. Suggesting a deep fire build without combustion is like suggesting an arms build to a warrior without mortal strike. Just don't do it man :)
the new frost talent in patch 2.3.2 is Icy Veins (NEW Frost Talent) decreases casting time of all spells by 20% and increases the chance your chilling effects will freeze the target by 25%. Lasts 20 sec. 3 min cooldown. It is now in the Cold Snap position in the talent tree. if you spec deep fire you'd have about 30% crit or so, and having 20% faster cast speed for 20 secs is better imo, especially if you have quagmirran's eye + blade of wizardry to pair up with it. that's a huge dps output, and they're both on 3 minute cooldowns.
and about the threat issue, guess i didnt read up on that :o i never had problems at all with threat and hence why i thought it was additive.
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