Patch 3.3 and Resto Druids

Post by Angrychair

With the upcoming GoTEM change, will Resto Druids be forced to stack more haste? Will the IC gear balance it out?

Will we still be spamming rejuvs/WG's?

How do other Resto Druids feel about the 10% haste loss on their gcd's? What are you guys going to change?

Post by skribs

This is a nerf to our HoTs, but is actually a buff to Nourish and Regrowth as the haste affects those, too (not to mention our other instant abilities that weren't affected by the old GOTEM). Yes, we will need to stack more haste to reach the 1 sec GCD, but there will likely be more haste on ICC gear. Part of the change actually allows us to benefit more from the haste on that gear - still technically a nerf, but like I said RG and Nourish will be better.Will we still be spamming rejuvs/WG's?On some fights, probably. On others, it will help a lot more.

Here's what I'm doing to cope: 18/0/53 Regrowth spec. The first major glyph will either be swift Rejuv (for tank healing) or Swiftmend (in a Regrowth build, i'd have no problem reapplying RG after the SM, as its a nice chunk of healing again). Basic idea is to use WG when its not on CD, keep rejuv on the tanks and maybe some lifeblooms, and then otherwise spam RG. I'm also gonna try and get my haste up to 1181 so I'd have a 1 sec RG cast.

Post by MegaVolt

Why would you want to do RG spam? The direct heal of (glyphed) Nourish is stronger and more mana efficient, right? Nourish is also faster so you don't need to stack haste, meaning more gear score for crit and spellpower.
Do you have some math to show that Regrowth spam is competitive?

Post by skribs

The direct heal on Nourish is more powerful, but Regrowth allows for a 27 second HoT which all in all makes it a very efficient spell. If you dont have points in Empowered Touch and you glyph for Regrowth, then RG is actually going to have about the same direct heal, plus a HoT that will do approximately 9-10k more.
Gear score can go to crit, but between raid buffs and Nature's Bounty RG will crit enough anyway. Gear score doesn't really go to SP, because almost all gear of one ilvl will have the same SP.

I haven't done any math on it, as I said it's what I'm going to do to cope and I'm going to see if it works. Part of the issue is I havent seen the fights in ICC and I'm not sure if blanket HoTs or direct heals are the way to go - and I see RG as doing a combination of both. It really boils down to whether or not the HoT will get much use - with a 1.08 sec cast time you can literally have RG on every raid member - which means if you need to Swiftmend you've got it, or on steady AoE fights you just go down the list.

I guess I could do the math, but it was one of those "here's what I'm gonna try" type things; a theorycrafting trick I get from my friend (who does the most retarded stuff and ends up monopolizing the meters with it).

Post by Angrychair

Post by skribs

The following assumes that you have roughly 20% crit raid buffed, 12% haste from rating (before buffs and talents), and 3200 SP raid buffed. Assuming the current tooltip for GOTEM is correct, and that it provides HoTs both the 10% off GCD (0.15 sec off) and 10% haste, you would have the following cast times/GCDs:
Note that I am not factoring in Natural Perfection or Celestial Focus at this time. Although CF would have roughly the same effect on all spells at this point, anyway.

Without the Formulae (listed below):
GCD = 1.013 sec, 1.0 w/ NG
Nourish = 1.126 sec, 1.0 w/ NG
Regrowth = 1.501 sec, 1.251 w/ NG
HT = doesn't matter as it hasn't been changed and it sucks in the current build

GCD = 1.35 (after GOTEM) / 1.1 (GOTEM) / 1.03 (Imp MK Aura) / 1.05 (WoA) / 1.12 (haste rating) = 1.013 seconds.
GCD with NG = 1.0 sec (as 1.013 / 1.2 < 1.0)
Nourish = 1.5 / 1.1 / 1.03 / 1.05 = 1.126 seconds.
Nourish w/ NG = 1.0 sec
Regrowth = 2.0 / 1.1 / 1.03 / 1.05 / 1.12 = 1.501 seconds
RG + NG = above equation (unrounded) / 1.2 = 1.251 seconds

The spec assumed for the following is 14/0/53. I know this skips points, but those are mainly filler, and LS is currently expected to mainly be filler and isn't calculated in the original math anyway. Even so, Gift of Nature and Master Shapeshifter are not factored in, because it simplifies the math and would have no difference in a comparison if both are multiplied by the same number (e.g. 1000 vs. 700 is the same difference as 1100 vs. 770).

Using SP coefficients found on WoWWiki, and multiplying Rejuvenation by 15%, I came up with the following (crit bonus is 0.5*crit chance + 1, all multiplied by the base heal, e.g. RG = 4434*(1+(0.5*0.45))):
RG Direct = 4434 (5432 avg once crit is factored in)
RG HoT = 9512
RG Total = 13946 (14944 once crit is factored in)
Nourish = 4182 (5123 w/ crit)
Nourish (w/ Empowered Touch) = 4822 (5907 w/ crit)
Nourish w/ HoT active = 5018 (6147 w/ crit)
Nourish w/ ET+HoT = 5786 (7088 w/ crit)
Rejuv = 12296
Lifebloom HoT (1 stack) = 3348
Lifebloom Bloom (1 stack) = 2757
Lifebloom Total (1 stack) = 6105
WG (1 target) = 4535
WG (6 targets) = 27213

I know there's a lot more to do on LB, but this isn't really focused on LB. It does, however, show how inefficient it is to use 1 LB.

Based on casting speed, the HPS of spamming the following around would be the following:
RG = 14944/1.251 = 11946 HPS
RG = 14944/738 = 20.25 HPM
RG Direct = 5432/1.251 = 4342 HPS
Nourish = 7088 HPS
Nourish = 7088/573 = 12.37 HPM
Rejuv = 12296 HPS
Rejuv = 12296/458 = 26.85 HPM
LB = 6105 HPS
LB = 6105/294 (after bloom cost) = 20.77
WG (6 Targets, compared with Rejuv Spam) = (27213-12296)/6 = 2486 HPS increase
WG = 27213/643 = 42.32 HPM

If the target needs massive burst heals, then Nourish is the best ability to cast. This of course assumes SM is off CD (or you're saving it for a specific boss ability), and a HoT is on the target.
If the target needs a direct heal, and probably/definitely a HoT (such as an effect which deals a large spike and then damage over time, or a spike on a fight with AoE), Regrowth is the better choice as it has much more HPM than Nourish.
If you are blanketing the raid, WG+Rejuv spam is the best choice.
LB is only good to roll on the tank, or as a high HPS choice for someone who will only be taking damage for <10 seconds (e.g. Light Bomb on XT), or to get some free mana back from a Clearcasting proc.

The numbers show that someone who blankets the raid, but will spam the tank when they need it, will make best use of a build based around the spells Rejuv and Nourish (obviously WG and Lifebloom as well, but those are specced into already anyway).

The reason I would go for Regrowth over the build with the better numbers is that RG provides both the HoT of Rejuv and the DH of Nourish, with much more efficiency than Nourish. The result is something that when someone is low will still keep them from dying but still provide a HoT, can keep more HoTs on people (allowing more options for a slightly weaker swiftmend).

Now I'll factor in Living Seed in a comparison of Rejuv and RG.
With crit, the average RG is now 6330 for the direct, leading to a total of 15842. The HPS/HPM become 12663 and 21.47. Slightly more HPS than Rejuv but still less HPM. More overall HPS (if meters are concerned) than Nourish, still.

Also consider that if I am wrong on how the GCD works, then you lose about 10% of the HPS on Rejuv. I dont think its wrong to stay with Rejuv+Nourish, and I dont necessarily think Regrowth is the better option. I do think its something I'm going to try.

Post by 340332

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by skribs

Here's another way to look at it:

With a Rejuv+Nourish build, here's how the following stats affect you:
Haste - Up to a fairly low number, decreases cast time. Past that number, simply makes nourish+run easier.
Crit - Affects your direct heals, but not your HoTs. Thus, not going to do anything for your most efficient heal.
SP - Great increase on your Rejuv, but simply scales with gear - its on all the gear we want anyway. Not to mention if you already had enough for the fight, the SP is simply overheal now.
Spirit/MP5 - Good stat, but real quick is going to hit a cap with a Rejuv based build to where you dont need it anymore.

Basically, with the R/N build, you dont see much benefit from any stat past a point. However, with a Regrowth build:
Haste - still has a soft cap, but its much higher and not easily obtainable. Thus, less likely you're going to go "I dont want that, it has haste."
Crit - Affects your primary heal, and allows it to stack Living Seed should it crit. Thus, less likely you'll be "I dont need crit, I barely use nourish anyway."
SP - Ok you can make the same arguement here I made above, this stat is neutral to the 2 styles.
Spirit/MP5 - Much more important, as they allow you to keep up a mana pool despite going for massive RG spam.

So, when looking at upgrades, instead of "bleh, I'm at the haste cap, I dont really need crit, I dont go OOM, and the extra SP is just gonna be gravy" its "ok, this piece actually has stats I need."

Post by razzem

Honestly, 3.3 has been doing many changes to GotEM.... and I don't think we've seen the end of them yet. If you look at mmochampions calculator, it's still on the "10% spell haste and reduced the GCD of LB by 10%."

It's nice to speculate, but honestly, I don't think that we have seen the last of the changes yet.

It sure will make grinding junk out with Wrath and SF a bit easier on restos that have a pve resto and pvp resto specs. :D

Patch 3.3 and Resto Druids

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