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Patch 3.2 JoL question
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Post by
MischievousLoki
At what amount of health is this gonna be a buff?
I mean, say mine healed for 250 pre-3.2, and I had 15k hp (Not 80 yet, don't play my Tankadin much anymore), so now it'll heal for 300.
Anyone know the math well enough to be able to say how much HP or AP/SP you'll need for this to buff JoL?
it's a nerf, straight ou. Unless you never had a ret paladin judging it and everyone in the raid has 25-30k hp, it's a nerf.
Post by
Arannia
Buff for holy though \o/
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140590
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Post by
Anarchy
So the ultimate question is...who will be judging light?
Holy paladin average is 650 AP, 2100 SP.
Ret Paladin average is 3600 AP, 1200 SP
Prot Paladin average is 2500 AP 800 SP.
I still think ret will be judging it, though correct me if I'm wrong.
Post by
MischievousLoki
Well, quick math:
Say a decent geared ret pallies AP+SP = 4,000. Each heal from JoL is .10 of that so 400.
A 20k player getting back 2% would also be getting 400.
A 35k tank getting back 2% would get 700.
You would need 7k AP + SP to return that much currently.
As it is, this looks like a buff to the tanks, and a slight nerf or no difference to everyone else.
Please correct my math if necessary.
Edit: This becomes more of a nerf the better geared your ret pally is.
at the current level of raids, fully buffed ret paladins can see JoL ticks for ~1k+, you'd need ~50k+ HP to get that after 3.2
But even if you have a tank with 50k HP, it's still a nerf, because there's no way all your DPS are going to have that much health as well.
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Post by
MischievousLoki
Rofl a nerf you say? It is more like a balance to the plethora of other generic "raid heals". Do you think Ret pallys give a crap about how much healing they did? Even though most of it was over heals. Holy pallys same deal, just to get on top of the healing meters. It was never anything important, just a gimmick gone wrong.
All blizz is doin now is giving it back to holy pallys so they dont feel left out. Can someone show me proof that JotJ gets overwritten? To my knowledge it does not. If two shadowpriests cast vamp touch on the same target does one get overwritten? Just doesnt make any sense.
Please show a me a WWS where Judgment of light did actual healing and not overheals.Nerf doesn't mean people will (justified or not) whine about it. Nerf means it's worse than it was, which is unequivocally true.
Judgements of the Just absolutely gets overwriten. If you judge wisdom, and another person judges wisdom, yours gets removed. That's just how the game works, and has worked for some time. Stop trying to compare it with completely unrelated spells.
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179128
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Post by
MischievousLoki
Not if you didnt have a Ret pally.
Thank you, you are a bastion of argumentative thought.
It's worse than it was if you had a ret paladin, or ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME if you hadn't.
3.1 JoL >= 3.2 JoL
Also, there are plenty of fights in which Judgement of Light and other small heals get great effect, due to the shear amount of AoE damage. Especially if it's spread out rather than burst out in one hit every so often. Fights like Sapphiron (with no FR), phase 2 Mimiron, Thaddius, pre-nerf XT-002, Kologarn, etc. (Of course effect depends on raid composition. i.e. number of healers and types of healers). The healing done by Judgement of Light has always been leaps and bounds more healing than divine storm for ret paladin's raid healing contribution. They don't even compare. Divine Storm's healing is a gimmick. A ret paladin's JoL healing for twice as much as other paladin's is a huge difference, and has great effect on the raid in the right situations (granted, mostly in learning encounters or sub-optimal raid comps).
It's not even really a big deal. It's just that nearly everything you said in your first post is just unbelievably wrong. It makes me wonder if you've ever bothered to think about the effectiveness of current judgment of light before now. For the record, I actually like the patch because it just means that a lot less coordination is required in terms of who judges what in a raid.
Post by
Synectics
Not if you didnt have a Ret pally.
Thank you, you are a bastion of argumentative thought.
Made me LOL.
Divine Storm's healing is a gimmick.
Now here's where I have to stop you, because you're looking at this purely from a PvE raiding perspective. Divine Storm is great healing while soloing or in big fights in PvP -- on one target, it's nothing, but on the full four targets, a geared Retadin can heal himself for quite a bit, and stay alive much longer. In a raid? You're right -- it's almost completely negligible.
I think the problem is that JoL should have been this way in the first place -- 2% of maximum health for the attacker, and not based on the initial Judger's SP and AP. You don't see JoW or Replenishment scaling with SP and AP, do you? :P Hell, with the old way, a level 1 could attack a level 80's judged target and get overhealed for three times their health -- YES, I KNOW, completely ridiculous and nigh-impossible scenario, but nonetheless true. It just seems funny that it ever worked that way in the first place.
Post by
MischievousLoki
Now here's where I have to stop you, because you're looking at this purely from a PvE raiding perspective. You got me there, I don't care about pvp, nope.
Post by
Synectics
You got me there, I don't care about pvp, nope.
You big jerk. :(
/sadpanda
Lol. More serious note, that's why I mentioned soloing -- Divine Storm really shines while grinding out more than one mob while soloing.
Balancing PvE isn't ALWAYS going to imbalance PvP, and vice versa... but it does happen quite a bit. :/
Post by
JamieK
Well, it all depends how screwed up paladin is after this alteration, cause this is just done to stop the pvp QQs, why they are focusing on pvp is beyond me, it should be more pve focused and pvp as secondary.
But sadly, EVERYTHING is based on shushing all the pvp QQs, i never see the point in that crappy pvp crap.
Ret Paladin was fine in 3.0.2 in a pve perspective, but sadly, pvp'ers instead of killing us in seconds for years, got killed in seconds for only a few weeks and bam, rets get nerfed in an attempt to shut up the pvpers........which only happens when they never, EVER lose.
Post by
Synectics
Hey, all you super-gung-ho PvE peeps should be glad we're even USEFUL nowadays. I remember Retadins having almost NO representation back in BC days in raids, because they were basically a joke at the time.
And I'm pretty sure a lot of these changes are being brought about by PvE Retadins -- hence the CS CD reduction to somewhat stop FCFS rotations, and the removal of SoB/M because the knockback was a liability in raids.
Don't get me wrong -- I love both PvE and PvP, and I don't see why there's so much friction between the two player types. Probably because I do both. It does suck that they are imbalanced, but it comes with the game. :P
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