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Pali's and bubble
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Post by
234288
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Post by
nubsanitizer
I've encountered paladins, good and bad. Regardless of their skill, they seem to use it when it is needed. I'm sure if you were to put yourself in their shoes, and death was inevitable, would you not use your only ability that can guarantee you another chance at life?
No offense, but this is kind of a QQ thread. The reason I say that is because instead of looking at why the other player relies on an ability, focus on your own abilities and use them to your advantage (i.e. Rogue stunlock, lock fears, dk icebound to keep from getting HoJ). The bubble is going to happen, burn him down as fast as you can, force the bubble and start all over again while he has Forbearance up.
Post by
180773
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Post by
346646
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Post by
Lightrain
Pallies rely on bubble to handle cooldowns and too much interupt/burst. Same as you rely on your bubble/PoM/renew/Pain Suppression to keep you alive long enough to heal yourself.
Try healing with just flash heal and PoM in arena, and come back to this thread.
Post by
311746
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Post by
Bazar
Most pallies I've run into in BG's know they can bubble and think of it as their "I Win Button" they'll usually wait until they get pretty low before using it... so I burn them down then try to time my Improv Counter Spell at the point I think they are going to bubble... they don't get to bubble then usually are like, "Oh poop on a stick my bubble doesn't work what in the world will I do?" and don't even attack back and they then die. This is obviously for the BG pally's I'm sure the arena versions would prove to be much more difficult...
The paladins your fighting either couldn't bubble, or didn't want to bubble.
I know i'll usually choose death instead of burning my bubble, unless it'll acheive something (like killing a player, helping defend a flag point, etc). Arena is a different matter entirely anyway.
Secondly improved counterspell doesn't stop bubbles in the slightest. Pallys can and will bubble through silence effects without trouble, the only thing that can stop them bubbling is when they have been spell locked down the holy tree. Silence has nothing to do with it.
Finally for all the QQ'ing in this thread.
Paladins have a reactive defensive ability call bubble. It works to help keep them alive. Kind of the same as how other classes have abilities:
Ice block
Dispersion
AoE Fear
Pain Suppression
Guardian Spirit
Natures Swiftness
Swift Mend
Blink
Warlock Blink
Vanish
Evasion
Dismatle
Hex
All the classes have abilities that grant them survival, most of them have a range of abilities. The paladin is the one healer class with the fewest defensive abilities, its only reasonable they have the strongest defensive abilities to even it out.
Or I am just seriously overestimating the capabilities of pali's healing?
You are, they have a fixed amount of healing throughput they can manage without becoming vulnerable to spell-lock effects which ensure death. And their biggest heals take time to land, unlike the other healers, so its often used as an anti-CC.
I honestly can't tell what you expect of paladins.
They are the easiest healer to pin into an unhealable situation, they also have a reset which prevents them from being destroyed with ease when focused fired.
Without bubble they would be as useful in the arena as a prot warrior.
Post by
311746
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Post by
Lightrain
But a mage can't heal or move during an Ice Block, and although I can blink away from a pally a nice Hammer of Wrath can fix that for them.
If you were arcane you could IB/instant invis and go evocate/bandage somewhere.
Post by
Bazar
But a mage can't heal or move during an Ice Block, and although I can blink away from a pally a nice Hammer of Wrath can fix that for them.
Apple, meet Orange. Orange, Apple.
But a paladin can't heal or bubble during a counter-spell, and although I can run away from a mage a nice Frost Nova can fix that for them.
Post by
311746
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Post by
Lightrain
Hehe, can't argue there. =)
Post by
Corilithon
You mean, IB, then Remove Ice Block, Instant Invis, then get divine stormed and killed if my blink was on cool down :D But I'm also not arcane if I was, I'd already be dead when fighting a pally. IMO Arcane = Anti-Caster; Frost = Anti-Melee
I've found that's its usually a lot easier to keep Slow up on a paladin than it is to keep up Freezes, and I personally prever to burst on the move than trying to set up a Shatter Combo that might get HoF'd. D=
Then again I only every fight average paladins... >.> But to say Arcane is only anti-caster isn't necessarily true, mostly because Mages in general = Anti melee.
Post by
n4rt0n
divine shield = An "oh-shi*" ability just like Ice Block, Vanish(CoS and Evasion), Ice Bound Fortitude, Power Word: Shield(Pain Surpresion) and many others.
the only 2 classes that can dispell pallies bubble are warriors and priests.
Me as warlock so if I need fear every battle am I a bad warlock? hum...so I should not use because if I use I will survive and then I'll be commented on forum of wow that I need use fear every battle to win?
if so I'm a bad warlock because I use fear.
The best way to deal with it is get used to it because wait every patch to they nerf it or something is not the best solution.
Post by
344052
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Post by
345711
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Post by
Booterang
Are (most) pali's really so unskilled they have to use bubble to win anything? Enlighten me.
Elightenment incoming, brace yourself:
Yes. most paladins are so unskilled they need bubble to win anything. The really good ones save it for the EXACT moment when it is needed, they don't use it too early or too late. A retadin should almost never need to use bubble if he is skilled.
Post by
00bender00
imo buff palas survivability a bit but nerf the healing and the burst dmg a bit...
the fights are jsut too short... oftenly lasting under a minute, kill or be killed RIGHT NOW!
Last time i tried to kill my arena buddy in a duel it took me about 10 minutes, me being in pve gear, that was fun. It takes less then half the time for a rogue/warrior/dk to do the same.
Get some resilience, burst is useless without a decent set of interrupts.
And no, a dispellable (see MAGIC) stun every 40 seconds is not a decent interrupt.
They gave us the "bubble" mainly because we are the only class in the game that cant perform any form of kiting. We dont have a single slow effect spell (unless you consider something that makes you run at 100% speed a slow effect) therefore a paladin (healer) can not gain any distance and / or kite his attacker to get some breath, and even if he wanted to, the only heal he can cast while moving has 5 second (glyphed) cooldown and rarely heals for as much as 7k crit.
That's why popular setups with holy paladins are with DKs (death grip, desecration), Warriors (harmstring, piercing howl), rogues (stuns, crippling poison)... With this sort of comp the paladin can gain distance from his attacker and therefore have a higher chance of surviving.
About BGs... Who the hell cares about BGs? Who's got most healers wins them anyways.
Post by
311746
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Post by
txsnowman
ill admit 12 seconds of total immunity to everything, but, maybe 2 now, spells is kind of annoying, but calling someone unskilled because they have a spell and they use, is retarded. Kinda reminds of the guys who call casters scrubs and pussy cause they run away the whole fight
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