This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Classic Theme
Thottbot Theme
Not sure I might answer this in the question but I need help with protection
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
etrin
Ok I am def capped but right now self buffed I only have 25k hp. I do the std rotations and stuff but the healers say I am tough to keep up a couple of times in toc.
I am using what they call the cookie 0/53/18 build
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0tAbuMusIufdxf0hbc
I am NOT hit capped, matter of fact with my gear I have 156 hit...Some of them say oh thats fine on a tank (to me its not but I am having a hard time maintaining def and hit on my gear) is this my problem?
I am loosing agro to locks and mages once they do some aoe and getting up to about 3K dps .
Friends so they just switch out and take it easy, not pugging.
My question is could it be blessing, aura, seal problem or is hit my down fall?
I use devotion, sanctuary and veng and I have fury up.
I am having some problems with mana so I seldom use Consecration.
of course I am not the greatest tank but learning, I have been healing for the past 2 months on my druid.
Post by
biogoo
I am loosing agro to locks and mages once they do some aoe
and getting up to about 3K dps.
I am having some problems with mana so
I seldom use Consecration
.
Pardon me?
Post by
161859
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
405390
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
etrin
I am lucky that I am going with some friends. Like I said these guys can do 5K+ in toc and just sit back and do their best to watch threat. One of them last night was messing with me, I would pull with avengers then he would have his pet intercept before I even got them engaged..HAHA NOT lol
But I seem to be doing what you guys are saying, so I am assuming its just me not feeling comfortable with this.
I never thought of plea on the start of a fight, that is one BIG mistake on my part. I am using it at about 50% and expecting more than I should.
Divine plea as I run in, Avengers shield to hit them all, run towards the caster so that I make sure all the mobs are together, hammer of 3 target pwn, consecrate, return to rotation.
I am doing the exact same thing, without plea and once I hit this I am almost out of mana, hit plea and judge and hope to get going again....NOT A GOOD WAY ....I will follow your plea first.
thanks for the pointers
Post by
pezz
Your healers having trouble keeping you up and also having mana problems suggests your avoidance might be kind of low. Also yes, DP right at the start and keep it up.
Post by
hatman555
Hmm, there is just something wrong with that statement tho. If the healers are having trouble keeping you up, then that means that they are spamming you with heals, which would with a 5% mana return on heals be solving most of your mana problems.
Sounds to me like you could be having a positioning problem. If you are losing aggro, then mobs are running away from you. If you go to chase them or taunt them back, you now have the mobs that you lost aggro on and the mobs that you had aggro on, attacking you from 2 different directions.
When you get attack from the back you can't block or parry, and that is going to hurt not only your life, but your effective mana return from blessing of sanctuary.
Tanking is all about small movements to keep the mobs you are tanking in front of you, but not moving around so much that your melee and AOE DPS need to adjust every time to match you.
Cheers,
Hat
Post by
pezz
When you get attack from the back you can't block or parry, and that is going to hurt not only your life, but your effective mana return from blessing of sanctuary.
This is what I was referring to by mana problems. No BoSanc mana if his avoidance is terribad.
Armory please OP?
Post by
365561
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
AnrDaemon
More importantly, and what seems everyone forgot - DP is a mitigation spell.
Which, in essence, will help healers keep you up.
And I was able to keep aggro from T7.5 Warlock in normal UK on my 73 level. Not very well, with endless taunts, but still.
Also, don't forget your best threat control tool - Hand of Salvation!
Put it on one top DPS'er and watch your threat rising.
My opening rotation, when I'm about to engage in fight that I know will not be easy for whatever reason, is this:
DP (15 sec duration/1min CD, mitigation and regeneration)
HS (10sec/8charges, mitigation and threat generation)
AS (30sec CD, threat generation)
Hammer (Glyphed Hammer is a strong trash control tool)
Judgement (Mostly regenration, but also some threat and if talented - strong debuff)
Consecration when applicable.
If you noticed, i'm on 69 rotation. ShoR follows, then HS...6969
Hint for managing packs that more than 4 mobs - start from corner, let second tank intercept other corner. Essentially, mobs will decide and split on you two, but all will be under control without an issue.
Post by
etrin
Also, don't forget your best threat control tool - Hand of Salvation!
I never even knew about this. So is this something like a misdirect and can I or should I do it at the first or a fight or do I have to wait until they pull ago?
I am not sure I can pull off casting this on someone who has agro since I am so tired up in the fight I know I am going to miss it.
Post by
Synectics
I am loosing agro to locks and mages once they do some aoe
and getting up to about 3K dps.
I am having some problems with mana so
I seldom use Consecration
.
Pardon me?
Biogoo nailed it from the start.
If you're not using Consecration, you're not using 969. If you're not using 969, you're not generating the maximum amount of threat that a Paladin can generate. Period.
Post by
JemiS
An armory would really help here.
I think you are probably low on avoidance (as was mentioned), and you seem to be worrying about stacking hit parallel to defense.
Hit is nice, when you are getting into higher end stuff and are pressed for threat, it should be capped (Expertise too) but at your gear level, don't worry so much about hit and expertise, and get your health and avoidance up.
This may be a stupid question, but you are using Blessing of Santuary, right? I've run into quite a few paladins lately that are using Kings and wondering why they're having mana problems.
Post by
Squishalot
I am loosing agro to locks and mages once they do some aoe
and getting up to about 3K dps.
I am having some problems with mana so
I seldom use Consecration
.
Pardon me?
Biogoo nailed it from the start.
If you're not using Consecration, you're not using 969. If you're not using 969, you're not generating the maximum amount of threat that a Paladin can generate. Period.
Not true in this instance. The maximum AoE threat you can generate is using a custom sort of rotation that improves uptime of Consecration from 89% to something closer to 100%.
969 is only 'max threat' against single targets.
Glyph for Hammer of
4 target pwn
instead, perhaps? That will improve your AoE threat.
Post by
biogoo
I am loosing agro to locks and mages once they do some aoe
and getting up to about 3K dps.
I am having some problems with mana so
I seldom use Consecration
.
Pardon me?
Biogoo nailed it from the start.
If you're not using Consecration, you're not using 969. If you're not using 969, you're not generating the maximum amount of threat that a Paladin can generate. Period.
Not true in this instance. The maximum AoE threat you can generate is using a custom sort of rotation that improves uptime of Consecration from 89% to something closer to 100%.
969 is only 'max threat' against single targets.
Glyph for Hammer of
4 target pwn
instead, perhaps? That will improve your AoE threat.
What I wondered about is how can he wonder about his AoE threat if he "seldom" uses Consecration. Later in the thread I saw that he discovered the propper use of Divine Plea and Hand of Salvation. I understand that HoS is a kind of strange tool, but if he states that he was a druid healer, one would think that he knows the value of mana and the first time he saw DP he should be rejoicing and could imagine all the super uses (one use, in fact, but still).
Whats wrong is that a lot of people nowadays just come to any forum or armory and just copy one of the talent builds they find there,
without even looking on what the talents do
. Or they even dare to ask for it, then copy it and then they ask for the rotation, then copy it, but if you want anything more, like
reading what all they skills really do
, no chance.
What more will we learn?
This may be a stupid question, but you are using Blessing of Santuary, right?
Its READ THE STICKIES thread from the very begining.
Post by
Squishalot
I know. I was just addressing the misconception that 969 is the answer to all your tanking problems. It's not in the case of AoE threat.
Post by
RottweilerCP
I'm surprised nobody's mentioned it, except in passing.
Snapper Extreme
! Until you are closer to the hit cap, this food is your friend. Do not stack hit unless you are horribly low(<150) but get some of this food and/or get your cooking up so you can make it. One or two hit gems in yellow sockets with decent bonuses is not a bad idea. I ran with a ~160 hit rating for a long time and had no trouble when eating Snapper. Now I'm at ~220 and go for
Dragonfin Filet
for heroics and
Blackened Dragonfin
for raids. Even if someone is dropping a Fish Feast every run, get some tank specific food and you will see much improvement.
Also, glyphing Hammer will not help in your current situation since you only fight more than 3 mobs in TOC during BK phase 2, and you can't get aggro the ghouls. However, I still think it's a great glyph for trash/heroics.
Another thing, if you want to do better in heroics, including TOC5. Start building a block set. If you're just running TOC5 to get gear for raiding, then don't worry about it, but I run mostly heroics and a block set does wonders.
Post by
Arcage
Well after getting my pala to 80 3days ago, and farming ToC norm (about 20times and still no trink), I'm running HCs without any real issue.
As long as your healer has a pulse, it shouldn't be hard to keep you up. though like stated earlier, dont let mobs hit you from behind, this hurts a lot.
My HP is now about 26k UB, though with a priest and other buffs I'm up round 30k.
it's suprising to see healers cringe over your HP, had a resto druid with over 5k GS leave cause of my UB hp, which is laughable, the guy could have healed a ret tanking HCs.
My druid is about 4.8k GS and as long as the tank is def capped, I dont stress at all.
Infact I healed a pala tank about 3.2k gs in ToC norm yesterday, and got him to pull all the 9 mobs before the second boss, and kept him up with out a problem.
Anyway back to the point, running HCs all day today, with a freshly dinged resto shammy (who plays well), and we were literally running through instances, I didnt need mana once. no one in that grp had a GS over 3.5k.
Keep at it m8, and you'll see it'll get easier quite quickly, consecration is your friend though :).
and if smart ass mages or locks pull mobs and make you taunt them, let them die, they wont do it too often ;)
Post by
valundar
Also, don't forget your best threat control tool - Hand of Salvation!
I never even knew about this. So is this something like a misdirect and can I or should I do it at the first or a fight or do I have to wait until they pull ago?
I am not sure I can pull off casting this on someone who has agro since I am so tired up in the fight I know I am going to miss it.
Hand of Salvation
This reduces current threat.
It is best used a ways into the fight. (as it reduces total threat... )
so lets say at 5 sec in dps has 10K threat... this will reduce roughly 2K threat.... but at 30 sec in.. the same dps has 60K threat.... this would reduce that by 12K ish
Download OMEN. It is a threat meter. Whoever is closest to you in threat a bit into the pull.... slap hand of salvation on em.
Righteous Defense
and
Hand of Reckoning
are your taunts.
Download healbot.
Turn on aggro monitoring.
set those 2 taunts to whatever click you like.
Then whenever someones bar in healbot is surrounded by red red...click one of your taunts. (also works for
HoP
and
HoS
if you set them up in healbot)
Disclaimer:
Before i get trounced on for calling RD a taunt....
I know it isn't really a "taunt" per say... but it does the job well enough.
Post by
268436
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.
