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Ninja? or justice
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Post by
ZoraLink
Someone got offended. Sure, dictionary definitions are all well and good. Sure, they're the TECHNICAL definitions of the words. But in day to day speech, a person doesn't always follow the TECHNICAL definition of a word.
To an everyday person, justice could mean anything from:
1. Equalizing an injustice (fairness)
2. Getting revenge on someone who's been a jerk.
3. Arresting someone.
While fair could mean:
1. Equal for everyone.
2. Better for the person who's using the word.
Yeah, sure, you can be "rendered speechless" by our idiocy, but I'm sorry, day to day speech can't be defined in a dictionary. And no, it wasn't meant to be an end all, be all to the argument, simply offering another point of view. It renders ME speechless when someone belives everything can be defined by what is written down.
And dictionaries offering the context of words DOES NOT equal the ACTUAL CONNOTATION OF THE WORD in everyday usage.
And yeah, my definitions aren't 100% Oxford approved. But they're what people think of when they think of the words. NOT
"The quality of being right and fair"
My point was, what happened wasn't necessarily JUSTICE, in that it didn't right a wrong, but it was fair for all persons involved. The hunter received items, could have POSSIBLY received more, but instead of calmly dealing with the situation when it didn't turn out the way he expected, he *!@#$ed out the unwitting victim of it. Fair? I'd say so. Justice? Not so much.
Post by
91278
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ZoraLink
To an everyday person, justice could mean anything from:
1. Equalizing an injustice (fairness)
2. Getting revenge on someone who's been a jerk.
3. Arresting someone.
While fair could mean:
1. Equal for everyone.
2. Better for the person who's using the word.
Justice: 2 and 3 are subsets of 1. Fair: 2. is a categorical misuse.
Sorry, "everyday language" may be that lax for you, but it is not for me. Again,
this is not grammar
we are talking about. This is
vocabulary
. The English vocabulary is so varied that there is always a word that means
exactly
what you want to say. So bloody use the correct word. If you don't know the correct word:
Look. It. Up.
Don't just use an approximation and expect people to "get what you mean".
No. Equalizing an injustice DOES NOT equal out to getting revenge. Getting into semantics once again, revenge tends to have a negative connotation, usually going overboard for what the person did, and NOT equalizing the injustice that has been done.
And I'm sorry that in everyday use for you, everyone uses absolutely every single word they mean, while carrying around dictionaries in case they aren't sure, but for myself, most people use words based upon what they PERCEIVE them to be, not the technical, dictionary definition.
You said it yourself, English vocabulary is INCREDIBLY varied. Not everyone uses absolutely every word exactly the same.
And as an aside: Different dictionaries will often have slightly tweaked definitions for words, occasionally entirely different words.
Post by
91278
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ZoraLink
And I'm sorry that in everyday use for you, everyone uses absolutely every single word they mean, while carrying around dictionaries in case they aren't sure, but for myself, most people use words based upon what they PERCEIVE them to be, not the technical, dictionary definition.
We're on a forum. Your "out and about" argument will not work here. You have time to consider your replies, to consider your choice of words, to consider their accuracy and their clarity. So consider them. Don't hide behind these platitudes. Have more pride in the language you're typing.
And we're on a forum. Pulling out individual sections of what I've said, while ignoring the rest will not work here. So consider them. It's not a "lack of pride" in the language I'm typing. It's a simple fact that most people understand words as a certain way, regardless of whether or not that's the technical definition. That's all I was getting at.
Most people won't take time to go look up the precise definition of "justice" and "fair" and cross-reference them just to make a forum post.
Post by
91278
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ZoraLink
Most people won't take time to go look up the precise definition of "justice" and "fair" and cross-reference them just to make a forum post.
And most people are idiots. Sounds like an over-simplified view of the situation but, frankly, it's accurate. Attempting to use both terms like that, assuming that they were "Similar but not the same", was an attempt at rhetoric. If you're going to use a seemingly innocent but in fact deviously complex argumentative device like that, you should at least verify a) that you're using it properly, and b) that the words you're putting into the formula fit the pattern.
(And, no, I quoted the bit that was relevant to the more general discussion. Sorry that I decided to decline your invitation to continue jabbering pointless semantics about people using the words "Justice" and "fair" incorrectly and whether they're right to do so, attempting to pull me even further into the murky bog of misinterpretation and misuse with words like "revenge". I got tired of it. Happy now that I've explained precisely why I didn't respond to every single little thing you replied with? Was it worth all the sarcastic questions? Can we move on now?)
Bah, it wasn't meant to lead into a whole discussion like this. (Though I like discussing it without it turning into a flame war.)
All I was offering was a different interpretation.
And I stand by the fact that while it was not justice, it was indeed fair. :)
Post by
MomirMaster
I assumed it was a unwritten rule of high lvl raids /roll main /roll off 1 main spec gear per boss or wing if someone else needs gear too. If i was loot master i would have done same thing and told the hunter to QQ he got 2 pieces of gear quit being a greedy #$@$. just my 2 cents though.
Post by
snickles
After observing the wacky antics of both Zora & Val, I feel that I must set aside my regular arsenal of entertaining (if not completely useful) advice:
Both of you would be benefited by sitting down, breathing deeply, and (shocking and idealistic as the idea may be) attempting to understand the other persons argument before bludgeoning the keyboard with a monologue the size of a minibus.
That being said, now I will pick up my regular flavor of advice and tell each of you has elements that are correct. Speaking as the self proclaimed expert in English literature and cultural anthropology that only occurs with frequency on the interwebs (ah, should have gone for broke with nano-robtics, but I digress), yes, justice and fair are, by definition, the same thing. They are not, however, used the same. before I start to babble incoherently in a corner with my usual jaded taint of gratuitous obfuscation, let me simply say that if one were to literally translate the soliloquies of Shakespeare into an easier, more modern form, they should be shot. Doing so would completely destroy the artistic value behind them. thus concludes my personal minibus contribution (in case of any shortages...).
edit: ahh, ADD, if only you could be persuaded to notice little things like declared truces as opposed to shiney text.
Post by
379675
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Post by
450879
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Post by
312967
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Post by
xenoblad
The RL must dictate the rules BEFORE THE RAID
(or atleast before loot is given, but this can appear biased)
How many non-tier gear rolls?
How many tier rolls?
How many rolls for miscelanious items?
Can only people of a certain prof roll on a certain item?
Etc.
It doesn't have to be limited to 1 anything per person, but rules have to be set.
Given your situation, no one is right. You niether ninjad nor had justice.
It was basically everyman and every opinion for himself at that point.
One can argue that there is an unspoken universal idea of how loot should be given, but this is just wishful thinking. Either one opinion (the RL's) defines what happens or they shot each other down.
Post by
105534
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Post by
Paolo
This thread also seems to get necro'd.
A lot.
Let it die. It's ready to find peace.
Post by
379675
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
drinkdeep
I think you are a'ok for keeping the ring. Imho, the RL was right for giving you the loot.
Rules specified before or not, it's plain and simple courtesy to pass after already winning 2 other items.
I as a raid leader would never ever let someone have 2 items in a single boss encounter, that would not be fair to the rest of the group. I don't give a damn if I specified rules or not!
So no, don't open a GM ticket and no don't give it back. You did not ninja the loot, plain and simple.
And to the people arguing other stupid points on here, holy crap way to take this off topic, G/J!
Post by
91278
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Post by
208857
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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