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New Warchief?
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367020
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306612
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Post by
Adamsm
Adamsm: He's... very capable as a warrior, yes. He still hasn't struck me as a
leader
.
On the ground, in front of the pack, he's fairly efficient. You do not want him handling anything more than an axe.
Aye, when he's actually out on the battlefied, he does know his tactics....well some times; as Sig is referencing, his entrance into Twilight Highlands wasn't the best. But, whether the people who dislike Garrosh want to admit it or not, he did pull off a successful war in Northrend; that's why he ended up as Warchief after all(Golden's words, the Shattering).
Post by
Rankkor
Adamsm: He's... very capable as a warrior, yes. He still hasn't struck me as a
leader
.
On the ground, in front of the pack, he's fairly efficient. You do not want him handling anything more than an axe.
Aye, when he's actually out on the battlefied, he does know his tactics....well some times; as Sig is referencing, his entrance into Twilight Highlands wasn't the best. But, whether the people who dislike Garrosh want to admit it or not, he did pull off a successful war in Northrend; that's why he ended up as Warchief after all(Golden's words, the Shattering).
meh, Me, I think his entire success in northrend was due to Saurfang. He WAS operating behind Garrosh's back (Such as when he kills the necrolord, or that letter he sends us in Agmar's Hammer)
Its pretty hard to think of him as a leader when he behaves EXACTLY like leeroy jenkins. Not just in the twilight Highlands intro, but in Baine's short story too, and just about everywhere that requires tactics (Strategy meeting in Warsong Hold rings a bell?)
I already posted this before but since its one of my finest posts I'll re-post it for emphasis.
We are led by Leeroy Jenkins
Captain Krazz
says: take us out, Mister Gearchurn.
Fergus Gearchurn
says: Aye aye, sir.
Fergus Gearchurn
says: Sir! the fleet is straight ahead.
Captain Krazz
says: Match altitude and speed, Mister Gearchurn.
Captain Krazz
says: Signal the fleet to fall into formation.
Fergus Gearchurn
says: Approaching the Thandol Span, sir.
Captain Krazz
says: Order the fleet into close formation. Keep it tight, everyone!
Captain Krazz
says: allrite everyone, we're gonna storm the highlands, I want a delta formation, air fighters in front, carriers in the center, interlocking fields of fire, and move at the same pace.
Captain Krazz
says: once we engage the enemy we need to keep them away from the carriers, we'll be in trouble if we dont take them out quick. Uhh I think this is a pretty good plan, we should be able to pull it off this time. Uhh, what do you think Fergus? Can you give me a number crunch real quick?
Fergus Gearchurn
says: Uhhh.. yeah gimme a sec... I'm coming up with thirty-two point three three uh, repeating of course, percentage, of survival.
Captain Krazz
says: Well, that's a lot better than we usually do. Uhh, alright, you think we're ready guys?
Garrosh Hellscream
says: Alright chums, (I'm back)! Let's do this...
GAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOSHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLSSSSSSSCCCCCCREEEEEEEEAAMMMMMMMM!
not surprising considering who's his father......
(10 years ago)
Thrall
says: All right, we're moving through the Stonetalon Peak. Don't attract any of the humans. Then...
Grom
says: Ah, screw it. Let's go purge these humans!
GRROOOOOMMMMMAAAAAASHHHH! HEEEELLLSCREEEAAAAMMM!
Thrall
says: Oh my god, he just ran in... SAVE HIM!
............... so yhea.............. the word Garrosh, and the word Leader put together are actually an oxymoron.
Post by
Adamsm
/shrug That maybe how you think Rank, but Golden(and through her Blizzard), does say that the reason why Garrosh is a hero to the newest generation of the Orcs is his successful campaign in the north; even Thrall admits that Garrosh did some good up there on top of the world. I'm sure Saurfang had a hand in molding Garrosh, but from what the official sources say, it was the son of Hellscream that won over the army and others.
Edit: Not saying Garrosh can't be an idiot at times(alright 85% of the time), but outside of the game, he does use good tactics on land, and is always about the Horde and their honour over all....sadly though, while that makes him a 'good' military leader, it doesn't make him a good leader leader.
Post by
Rankkor
/shrug That maybe how you think Rank, but Golden(and through her Blizzard), does say that the reason why Garrosh is a hero to the newest generation of the Orcs is his successful campaign in the north; even Thrall admits that Garrosh did some good up there on top of the world. I'm sure Saurfang had a hand in molding Garrosh, but from what the official sources say, it was the son of Hellscream that won over the army and others.
Edit: Not saying Garrosh can't be an idiot at times(alright 85% of the time), but outside of the game, he does use good tactics on land, and is always about the Horde and their honour over all....sadly though, while that makes him a 'good' military leader, it doesn't make him a good leader leader.
or, it could simply be glorified publicity.
Its not uncommon to see people being praised as something even if they dont deserve it.
I loathe having to use a hitler example (Due to Godwin's law and all that) but I have to in this particular case. He was a TERRIBLE strategist, if it wasn't for his very competent subordinates he would had never gotten as far as he did. He wasted away millions of military budget on fancy uniforms, unpractical weapons (Such as a massive tank that was just as hard to assemble as it was to operate and deploy making it 80% useless and 150% more expensive than the common variety) and a very poor grasp of tactics.
His only virtue is that he had a great gift with words, and fancy speeches, but when it came to actually devise a strategy, he was a complete idiot. And yet, the propaganda he himself established, hailed him as the unique savior of germany, as a genius, and as a paragon of Arian Perfection. This is the power of publicity, if he said he was a great leader, people would believe it. Even if he was a terrible tactician in every way imaginable.
Garrosh is lauded as a hero by the newer generation of orcs, but things is, most of the orcs didn't actually fought with him, side-by-side (as he was never in the front) and thus, never actually knew how good he was in tactics, they just assumed all credit and success of the horde in northrend was due to him since he's the child of someone famous.
Kinda like if Pavarotti had a son, most people would automatically asume the kid would be a great singer due to his father. And unless they actually heard him sing, they would still believe it.
What I'm getting at is that he gets this much Worship and people blatantly overlook his MANY mistakes, because he's the son of a Legend. If he was the son of someone less famous I bet you 3 to 1 he wouldn't had made it past blood-guard in military rank.
Post by
Adamsm
Garrosh is lauded as a hero by the newer generation of orcs, but things is, most of the orcs didn't actually fought with him, side-by-side (as he was never in the front) and thus, never actually knew how good he was in tactics, they just assumed all credit and success of the horde in northrend was due to him since he's the child of someone famous.
Kinda like if Pavarotti had a son, most people would automatically asume the kid would be a great singer due to his father. And unless they actually heard him sing, they would still believe it.
Not exactly Rank; think about the first few chapters of the Shattering, where the Horde soldiers were more then willing to follow Garrosh as he, Carine and the rest fought off the Kvaldir then the attacks on the Alliance ships. Then you see more of that in Wolfheart, with the forces that bring the Magnataur and the Kor'kron, as well as the actual army there, more then willing to listen to his orders and do as he asks....hell, the main leader of the Magnataur hunting group is so upset about losing two of the giants that he wants to kill himself for failing the Warchief like that.
Heh, unless you are suggesting that he didn't learn a single thing about tactics, armies, and fighting even though he had access to Saurfang during the Northrend campaign?
What I'm getting at is that he gets this much Worship and people blatantly overlook his MANY mistakes, because he's the son of a Legend. If he was the son of someone less famous I bet you 3 to 1 he wouldn't had made it past blood-guard in military rank.I don't know; the Orcish society is built more on the merits of what one does then who their father was.
Edit: Now, if it was Humans well.....
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870547
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306612
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588688
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Post by
Adamsm
Should definitely be Cairne!
Let the cows rule Azeroth ffs!
......Go away.
It's like Garrosh is only remotely competent in the expanded universe. As soon as you actually enter the game world, he becomes the biggest bumbling idiot to lead the Horde since... well, I WAS going to say Blackhand but he did beat the humans way back in WC1 so... yeah.
Well thanks to Gul'dan and Doomhammer of course heh.
Further proof that garrosh will be removed from power is his very statement in the twilight highlands intro where he says he and his horde is going to rule the entire world. 99.99% of all characters in fiction who want to rule the world are usually portrayed as a villain. I imagine thrall either killing garrosh for what he's done so far, or banishing him from the horde forever.
He's not a villain; if he was, rather then meting out heavy to any Horde member who goes against his wishes(Blight, Fel magic and the like), he'd be happy about that and want them to do more; he may die doing something heroic like his father, but I don't see Thrall killing him, or banishing him, merely keeping him around as the leader of the military might of the Horde.
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588688
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229054
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306612
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Post by
Rankkor
This. I hate it when people try to twist the meaning of a statement by trying to pull all these different interpretations out of nowhere, when it's obvious it only means one thing. I mean, he said "your warchief is coming back" not simply "thrall is coming back" instead he referred to thrall as warchief. It's pretty clear what he means by that.
If Metzen wanted to make a clear statement, he would have done so. He didn't.
I dont think how much more clear "your warchief is coming back" could posibly be.
Its not like its left open for much interpretation.
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306612
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229054
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306612
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Post by
Rankkor
Your doubt doesn't lead to a single possibility - that Thrall isn't actually coming back - but rather that things won't go as simply as Thrall just coming back. His recent characterization could also reflect a change in the role of the Warchief.
And really, that phrase isn't cryptic.
It's not flowery prose I'll give you that but it's not as open and close as others have said. We know Thrall comes back. That's pretty much the extent of what we know.
For all we know, he could return with a renewed vigor in enforcing the Warchief's rule through methods that are different (yet better) than Garrosh's.
nobody doubts that when (if) thrall retakes his mantle of warchief, he wont be the same warchief as before. He's undergone a great deal of personal change in the past couple of years, and it would be unrealistic if it didn't showed up on his leadership.....
thing is, we're not questioning how (or if) he's gonna be a diferent warchief than he used to be, we're adressing the fact that the devs said he'd return (And addressed him by title) and the statement itself doesn't leave much room left for interpretation.
if metzen didn't said more, it wasn't because he wanted to be criptic, or wanted to leave an ambiguous statement open for interpretation, its because he didn't wanted to spoil the plot more than that. (as it is, the mere fact of addressing his return is spoiler enough, since his current caracterization doesn't show a desire to return at all, and would had made a VERY pleasant surprise)
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