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New rogue - levelling/spec question.
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Post by
kamodius
Good day, rogues.
I'm hoping this isn't a terribly redundant post, but I'm curious;
Conventional wisdom has been for some time now that Combat Swords is
the
way to level a rogue. Other than the stock answer of "efficiency", why is that?
I'm asking because my brand new rogue is about to hit 16, and in looking ahead at the spells/talents, I can't come up with a solid reason why an
Ambush
opener at 18, followed by Sinister Strike and Evis would be a bad idea.
What am I missing? Is it just the lower damage on daggers? I've already got the
Kris
(extra Stone Keeper's Shards) and will be picking up the
Heartseeker
very shortly. Thus far I've been using
this
in my main hand and the Kris as my off-, but Combat is reminding me an awful lot of levelling my paladin retribution. About 4 buttons to push, /faceroll to 80. Sure, that's simplifying, but still..
Any thoughts, suggestions would be very handy for a relative newcomer to the class.
Cheers. :)
Post by
102953
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
kamodius
I've had a 70 Warlord Rogue (wayyy back when) and just releveled another Rogue to 80 recently. Both times I leveled with daggers...simply because I love the dagger playstyle.
Stealthing in, nailing a nice ambush, wailing em with a nice evis, etc. Now that's good stuff. Even now, I'm a pvp spec with Mutilate and just enjoy the dagger specs over swords/maces/axes.
PvE wise, Combat (leveling) seems to be the norm because it's supposedly faster just due to the talents you get in that tree.
Now, trust me when I tell you that leveling daggers is not a big problem at all. It's not painful compared to combat, just different. Especially with leveling...what matters is how efficient you are with questing, etc. more than your spec.
Regardless of your spec, it's more about how you go about questing. Keep in one area...download lightheaded and tomtom (two AWESOME addons for questing) and if you have 6 quests in 1 zone...see where they are and go from 1 to 2 to 3 etc. If you do this smart...daggers...swords...axes...doesn;t matter...it'll be faster making sure you don't run south...do a quest....run north....hand it in....and say oh sh*t...I have another quest south.
As for playstyle, stick with what you enjoy man. If swords leveling is like your pally days and you hated it...stick with daggers. You will level just fine...trust me :).
Thanks, ice.. Looking at the talents in Assasination, seems like it'll do decent damage, and I like the idea behind the tree a lot. Sneak up, hurt 'em before they know you're there and watch 'em bleed to death. That's what a rogue's all about to me. Combat swords feels a lot like a warrior in leather.. just kinda meh to me.
Appreciate the response.
Note: Might be worth mentioning that I've got 5 characters 70+, three of them at 80. The rogue is purely a fun/learning to pvp toon for me, so I'm way ahead of you on the addons and quest bunching, but kind of you to give the extra advice. :)
Post by
102953
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
kamodius
Not a problem man...quest addons are godly.
And I totally hear you...im not into Lore, etc. but when I think Rogue....I think dagger.
Rogues are a blast, even without ambush...its just fun to cheapshot a mob, then 5 combo kidney shot. By the time its over the mob is normally dead without me getting touched.
GL, if you need any tips gimme a shout.
Actually, I do have a question. Most of the posts I've seen for dagger levelling indicate that Backstab should be the opener. Is there something I'm missing about using Ambush instead? Description indicates it'll do more damage, and if I'm behind the target, I'm probably going to be stealthed anyway...
Post by
102953
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
kamodius
Since I'm Mutilate spec I never use backstab now , but I'd always open w ambush back then. Ambush, then either gouge to rebuild enough energy for backstab or use a kidney shot.
Dunno why you would ever use backstab over ambush...if you have a decent dagger at low levels one ambush can put the mobs hp's down to 50%.
Mostly just mess around with your rotation but I always used ambush when stealthed. Backstab when you can get behind a target not stealthed.
Makes sense. Bear in mind that I'm 15 levels from Kidney Shot, that's why I asked.
Am thinking about something along the lines of Ambush->SnD->SS->Evis to finish for now, replacing Evis with Rupture at 20.
I dunno, all I can say is that out of all of my toons (rogue is my 10th on my main server), this is the most fun I've had since aoe-grinding my mage from 77-80 in 6 hours. Though I can't wait for more stealth speed.. ugh.
Post by
102953
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
kamodius
So as a follow-up, what's with the hate on Subtlety specs?
Looking at the tree (fresh eyes, I guess), there's some
juicy
stuff in there. Stealth speed, hitting hard out of stealth and either going back in or stunlocking.. What am I missing here?
Post by
Liquoid
So as a follow-up, what's with the hate on Subtlety specs?
Looking at the tree (fresh eyes, I guess), there's some
juicy
stuff in there. Stealth speed, hitting hard out of stealth and either going back in or stunlocking.. What am I missing here?
No damage.
Post by
smart88
sub is a fun spec....i liked it a lot at level 45....u can make a huge AMBUSH with it couse u have a 60percent crit with that spec....u just use the CPspell i forgot its name...make ambush...u have 4cp on the target...then use hemo an kidney shot...at this time it shouldbe death
Post by
452850
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
kamodius
Edit: Let me preface by saying up front that Combat is almost certainly more efficient. No arguments. But it's also a lot less fun.
Not to necro my own thread, but my rogue is about three bubbles from hitting 30 now, and swapped over to play around in Sub. Hitting huge crits nearly every time with Ambush, having a 4-second CD on Stealth and the extra movement speed all make this a
very
fun spec to play.
Subtlety just feels more like what being a
rogue
should play like.
All that being said, Sub is just a means to an end... that end being Mutilate. Going to go Sub from 30-50 and likely dual-spec at that point to Assassination/Sub for PvE and PvP play, respectively. I've been stunlocked to death so many times that being able to give it back for awhile is immensely satisfying.
New rogues, the only advice I'd give you is this (other than the standard and accurate "play what you like"; that goes without saying:
1) Assassination is not the way to go pre-Mutilate.
2) Combat is fast, efficient, safe...and nothing like what a rogue seems like it ought to be. If you're one that's fine with just gritting your teeth and chewing through the levels, it's probably the way to go. It's fast, it's basic (don't even have to stealth, just run up, /faceroll Sinister Strike and Eviscerate, repeat ad nauseum), and it gets the job done.
-BUT-
3) Subtlety is all about what you think of a rogue being. Sneaky, backstabbing, kill-you-before-you-know-he's-there damage. Stunlocks, great combo point generation and a talent that gives a mini-Evade working with another talent that gives you combo points when you dodge. Biggest problems are twofold: You'll run out of energy before you run out of combo points, and if you multi-pull and Vanish fails (and that
never happens
, amirite?) you're pretty well screwed.
Assassination = Poisoner, but wait until 50. No input because I'm not there yet.
Combat = Imma Fury warrior, lolwut? If it's your thing, probably the fastest but most boring.
Subtlety = Sneaky bastard ninja. Not the fastest, but (imo) very fun and still effective.
Not sure why the wall of text, but hopefully someone will read this and have a question answered. These are the opinions I would've liked to have seen rather than the jaded "Go Combat, /thread", or "Sub sucks, it's dead, no damage kbai" that I usually see.
Post by
WolfwoodSama
Funny, my rogue just hit 50 yesterday.
I leveled Combat, but did so in contempt. 10-50 I had to go Combat if for no other reason than
the extra 5% chance to hit.
After hitting 50 I immediately went Assassination and never plan on going back! Cheap Shot + Mutilate + 5-Point Eviscerate = Dead Mob, it's great! However, I'm spending my next 10 points in Dual Weapon Specialization and Precision before I go any further into Assassination.
Post by
kamodius
Funny, my rogue just hit 50 yesterday.
I leveled Combat, but did so in contempt. 10-50 I had to go Combat if for no other reason than
the extra 5% chance to hit.
After hitting 50 I immediately went Assassination and never plan on going back! Cheap Shot + Mutilate + 5-Point Eviscerate = Dead Mob, it's great! However, I'm spending my next 10 points in Dual Weapon Specialization and Precision before I go any further into Assassination.
That's pretty much exactly my plan. It may be worth even digging a tad deeper for
Close Quarters Combat
for an additional 5% crit with your daggers.
Post by
WolfwoodSama
That's pretty much exactly my plan. It may be worth even digging a tad deeper for
Close Quarters Combat
for an additional 5% crit with your daggers.
Yes and no. I'm opting to pick up
Opportunity
, then
Master Poisoner
, THEN CQC.
Post by
129046
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
kamodius
#showtooltip hemorrhage
/equipslot 16 Venerable Mass of McGowan
/equipslot 17 Balanced Heartseeker
/cast hemorrhage
#showtooltip ambush
/equipslot 16 Balanced Heartseeker
/equipslot 17 Venerable Mass of McGowan
/cast pick pocket
/cast ambush
No need to unequip weps before. Just pre macro and your MH and OH will switch places. Just replace the name of the weapon with the ones you are using.
Usually I just pre-med, CS, hemo, Evis, hemo and mobs is almost dead. Sometimes I do pre-med, ambush, Evis, hemo wich leads to almost same, but depends bit on the crits.
About sub, If you ever want to BG during leveling (wich you should!), sub rules. We just lost GM in AB, and there were 5 or so hordes. There was this sguishy mage bit apart. pm, ambush, evis, vanish and one horde less before they even knew what hit them.
Thanks for the macros, I'll use those. My question, however, is if there's any special reason you're using a mace off-hand? I'm hoping I didn't waste badges getting two Heartseekers.
Post by
KidB
Thanks for the macros, I'll use those. My question, however, is if there's any special reason you're using a mace off-hand? I'm hoping I didn't waste badges getting two Heartseekers.
Because using hemo with daggers is bananas-crazy.
Post by
kamodius
Thanks for the macros, I'll use those. My question, however, is if there's any special reason you're using a mace off-hand? I'm hoping I didn't waste badges getting two Heartseekers.
Because using hemo with daggers is bananas-crazy.
mmmm bananas.
Edit:
Nevermind
. I'm going to stick with daggers for speed (since I blew the badges on them) and because Hemo isn't the star of the show, it's just a non-position-dependent cheaper combo point builder.
Also because I'm not min-maxing, I'm levelling.
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