This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Classic Theme
Thottbot Theme
My friend has issues with threat.
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
Gibby
So I have this DK tank friend, they're a great player and person in general, so I'd love to be nice about this. Also noting this is not their first character.
My friend is a 2Hing Frost Tank DK, I love playing with em, but their tanking character has a little bit of issues, stats look up to par, they're geared, gemmed, and enchanted properly, over the D cap and such. Though their threat is a bit, bad, compared to what we raid in ToC, my pally can easily pull 5-6k, but they usually sit in the 2-3k range until they get going after quite a while, even then its a bit troubling.
Anyways, these are the rotations that he sent me over messenger:
Single target "IT, PS, BS, OB, RP dump. "
AoE "DnD, IT, PS, pest, tab target, HB, RP dump."
Now I don't play a DK and never got one past 60, I'm unsure if this is right, or even sounds right, a little insight would be great.
Here's their Spec
I'd rather not do armory links, but I can tell you alot of things from playing with them.
~36k health in frost pres.
~Expertise capped
~6% hit (ToC gear has so little)
~27% dodge
~20% parry
Unsure of the Strength if that's a crucial part, he's in dps gear in the armory. His average gear level is of ToC10, some higher, a few lower.
Sorry if it's a bit long! I'm talking to my friend on AIM right now actually, if I'm missing something or there's something you DK Pro's need to know, I might be able to get that info. Thanks for anyone who can help!
-edit for a mis-linked rotations and spec-
Post by
asakawa
so, clearly hit cap is the first thing to look at here for threat but 3% is unlikely to be causing such low threat.
i understand not wanting to post his armoury but talent build is probably the most important thing here. also glyphs.
post those please.
also, a quick fix that some miss is macroing rune strike into all other attacks. this makes a huge difference and if he doesn't currently do it then this will likely be the fix he needs.
it is clear to see how important rune strikes are when tanking a mob with another tank there. if i'm getting hit the other tank will never catch me. if the other tank current;y has threat i will quickly fall behind. this is all down to the rune strikes.
Post by
Thelinz
If what you say is accurate, most threat issues DKs have is because either their spec is quirky, poor rotation or they have not macro'd Rune Strike to all their abilities.
Rotation I use:
Single Target: IT, PS, BSx2, OB, dump
OBx2, dump -> refresh disease
AoE group: Deathchill+HB, DnD, spam BB and work in HB
Post by
parnasistis
you said he is frost so put glyph of howling blast 1st of all and then use dnd,hb(applies fv to all targets),blood boil for aoe.you have built a nice amount of threat.dont worry about strength.dont gem strength(never!).on single target rotation i dont see frost strike.why?compining it with killing machine when its activated it rules or howling blast when killing machine is active on aoe groups.and ALWAYS runestrike when its on!because he uses 2hand tell him to put 2/2 tp on "2 hand weapon spec" from blood talent tree(i hope he didnt waste all the tp on frost tree).
Post by
Gibby
Ah I thought I linked the spec & rotation, re-creating that quickly
Post by
parnasistis
i forgot to say i never use macro as tank not even in raids and never had threat issues.
Post by
Gibby
I've edited in the spec/Glyphs. And yes Rune Strike is macro'd.
Though this is more of a question for me, but may help people, When you cast rune strike from the macro, do you just press the button again to keep your rotation in order (IE: 1, 2, 2, 3) or you just go 1, 2, 3 no matter what?
-edit, Apparently I'm bad, I didn't realize Rune strike doesnt take a GCD XD
Post by
Thelinz
well, his spec seems ffine but for one thing...he's missing Glacier Rot. That's 20% more dmg to targets with frost fever from HB, FS and IT. add that up through out a fight or a whole raid and thats a lot of missing dmg/threat.
Post by
450989
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gibby
Hm thanks for the spec ideas, we're going to try it out tonight, if there's any other suggestions, would love them!
Post by
Nystali
2/3 Scent of Blood is all a frost tank needs. Anything more is overkill. You can throw that one extra point into Virulence for extra spell hit.
As others have said, Glacier Rot is extremely important.
Glyph of HB is invaluable for a tank. The only debatable glyph swap he could do is Rune Strike for Obliterate. Frost Strike and HB are near mandatory.
Make sure that he is taking advantage of his Death Runes in the single target rotation.
IT->PS->OB->BS->BS->FS dump.
OB->OB->OB->FS Dump
Always use HB when it procs from Rime.
Group:
HB->DnD->BB->FS dump (can tab target that around to help spread threat)
HB->BB->BB->OB (hoping for a Rime proc)->FS dump (repeat this line for the rest of the fight)
Post by
450989
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gibby
All the rotations and such are great! We're going to be running some heroics and raids tomorrow when they reset. We'll give em a go!
Post by
Paolo
See this
thread on Tankspot
for a comparison of the three single-target threat glyphs (OB / FS / RS). With some reasonable assumptions, he concludes that RS > FS > OB in terms of threat production, although FS has some benefits that makes it a tough choice between FS and RS.
Since we're talking ToC (as per the OP), there's no need for AoE threat (HB), so you should consider using all 3 of those threat glyphs to maximize your TPS.
Post by
Nystali
Glyph of HB is quite useful for what its meant to do - ease our group aoe rotation. Why would a frost knight want to waste a blood rune that could go for an extra BB by having to spread their diseases with Pest? HB glyph allows you to go single disease aoe rotation saving all runes for TPS production.
For single target, yes, HB is next to useless, but that's not what its there for. The friend of the OP is not lacking threat production due to having glyphed HB, its more of a fundamental rotation issue.
While OB glyph does increase the threat for that single ability, FS glyphs allows for more FS during the boss fight. Depending on the length, the extra FS's would produce higher threat than the OB. It also helps reduce the amount of runic power used which could help you perform both a RS and a FS when unglyphed you could only perform one RS instead.
I know you're commenting that OB glyph -> HB glyph, but I'm talking about finding a good glyph synergy that helps a frost tank perform all tasks (single target AND group threat). OB, FS, and RS only helps with single target. HB, FS, and RS helps with both situations.
As for scent of blood, even at 2/3 it will stack up to the max of 3 stacks that you would get at 3/3. The % of the proc stays the same, and if you're tanking, scent of blood will nearly always be proccing. 1/3 would almost be passable, but when you're only gaining 1 stack per proc, you're pretty much using that stack before each proc. With 2 stacks being generation, you're much more likely to be producing a surplus of stacks, and at 3/3 you're almost always creating stacks that get wasted because the buff doesn't stack beyond 3.
I suggested Virulence because the person is below the melee special cap. This means they are even further below the spell hit cap. You could throw that one point somewhere else as well, like maybe morbidity or Ravenous dead.
Post by
Nystali
See this
thread on Tankspot
for a comparison of the three single-target threat glyphs (OB / FS / RS). With some reasonable assumptions, he concludes that RS > FS > OB in terms of threat production, although FS has some benefits that makes it a tough choice between FS and RS.
Since we're talking ToC (as per the OP), there's no need for AoE threat (HB), so you should consider using all 3 of those threat glyphs to maximize your TPS.
I had been looking for the thread on here that referenced that Tankspot post. Thanks for linking it.
Post by
Paolo
It was easy for me to find that link, since it was in a thread I created. So I found it by looking in my own profile :)
Myself, I've glyphed HB/OB/RS. With 2/3 SoB and 3/3 CotG, I have more RP than I know what to do with, so I'm frost-striking a
lot
. My single-target damage-done profile is commonly 25% OB, 25% FS, 25% melee, 25% everything else.
Post by
450989
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Eleazer
@the OP - You do need a few changes.
1. Remove IT/PS from the rotation unless you are on single target boss it will only slow down your threat initially.
2. Everyone is correct Glacier Rot is huge!. Bladed Armor is not. Remove bladed armor and put those points into glacier Rot.
3. Imp ICY Talons is invaluable if you don't have a frost DW dps with you or a enhance shaman who specs for raids.
4. Merc combat is a toss up
5. 2/3 in Scent of Blood is all you will need. Nystali is 100 percent correct on this with 3/3 you end up wasting procs.
6. Glyph of HB, Glyph of OB, Glyph of either Rune Strike or FS. The reason you choose either RS or FS is because both use the same resource so you will either be RS or FS at high level raids.
7. Expertise and Hit are absoltuely 100 percent essential to threat generation. If your Expertise is not at 26 plus you will be dodged/parried/blocked so much your threat generation will be near nil.
This is my preferred
Frost Tanking Spec.
Post by
450989
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.