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Moonkin filling dps role in raids
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Post by
387375
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
223674
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Celdhyrean
Go the the EJ druid section for lots of WWS's from raiding moonkins. It's more difficult to give a dps average for classes in Ulduar since there are many fights with dps boosts, ae or random things causing movements. Still, good moonkins should be in the high 5k low 6k i'd say on fights with relatively low interferences.
Hodir and Vezax can easily result in over 10k dps though, so ...
Overall i'd say moonkin isn't the best dps around these times but is competitive enough to not have to be benched if played well.
Post by
curlymon
Hodir and Vezax can easily result in over 10k dps though, so ...
Overall I’d say moonkin isn't the best dps around these times but is competitive enough to not have to be benched if played well.
Having the stars align on Hodir and pumping out 58k crits every 1.1 seconds is truly an awesome experience...
Yes Boomkins are great dps when played well. I'm anything but a casual Boomkin but I play in a casual guild. There have been jokes of calling our raids "Boomcon" as we usually have no less then 3 boomers and I've seen 6 at once :P
The only reason a DPS class should EVER be benched is if the PLAYER is CONSISTANTLY not playing well and ONLY on progression fights...
That is my guild philosophy and as we don’t care about world or server firsts since achieving those are nearly out of the question, it suits us perfectly fine.
The question of whether or not a class is worthy of a DPS spot should never revolve around their numbers as a class... only the player. A player can be sat down and worked with to bring numbers up. IF you are concerned about a class not doing very well don't take a lot of them but don't completely exclude them. A good player puts out good numbers despite the class limitations.
One of these days I'm going to build a raid group with worst case scenario class build and prove that even THEN you can clear content...
Post by
Kaitain
Hodir and Vezax can easily result in over 10k dps though, so ...
Overall I’d say moonkin isn't the best dps around these times but is competitive enough to not have to be benched if played well.
Having the stars align on Hodir and pumping out 58k crits every 1.1 seconds is truly an awesome experience...
Indeed :-)
Post by
pelf
WTF, Kaitain...
If there was some way to actually quantify the value of the moonkin aura and all raid-wide moonkin effects, they would probably be one of the more valuable additions. Even without that, our moonkin performs very well. While he doesn't top the charts, he's certainly not far from the top.
Post by
Katsudon
Unless your other dps suck, moonkin will never top the charts, its just the limitations due to current game balancing. You can be a solid contributor, but if your looking to place top 3 every week, i would explore feral dps instead, where you actually do have the chance to top the charts constantly.
Really depends on weither playing as a caster is more important to you, or topping the charts is.
Post by
curlymon
Unless your other dps suck, moonkin will never top the charts, its just the limitations due to current game balancing. You can be a solid contributor, but if your looking to place top 3 every week, i would explore feral dps instead, where you actually do have the chance to top the charts constantly.
Really depends on weither playing as a caster is more important to you, or topping the charts is.
Chart topping should be the least of your concerns as a boomkin... If you remove the 1 boomkin from your raid you remove a very large source of additional dps to your other caster classes. They WILL take issue with losing 5% crit... and as a result the raids dps will suffer. The more casters you have the worse this change affects you.
Now if you allready have a boomkin and the 2nd one wishes to go feral then that is a perfectly reasonable course of action.
Post by
Celdhyrean
They won't suffer if there is an elem shaman, a ret paladin and an spriest in the raid (i usually have 2/3 in all raids and sometimes even all of them).
Post by
curlymon
Yes true but that's 3 chars to be able to replace 1 spot.. that's min maxing and as I said unless you are going to be doing world or server firsts there is no point to it.
Post by
Kaitain
From my experience having a fat fluffy disco dancer in the raid raises the morale.
The point about the synergy - yes all 3 bits of moonkin synergy can be provided by having an Ele Shaman, a retri, and a Shadow Priest, and yes most balanced raid groups will have all 3 of those classes present, but as the moonkin covers all 3 if a single one of those 3 classes cannot make a given raid, your moonkin is the safety net. On top of that, if any of those 3 classes dies mid fight, your moonkin will be keeping up the synergy.
In terms of damage, given the number of insane crit scaling fights (XT, Council, Hodir, Vezax) and Starfall/AoE-friendly fights (Kologarn, Auriaya, Razorscale, Freya), it is not too hard to be above some DPS classes who bring a lot less in terms of synergy. Simulators will show Moonkins nearly last atm, but direct experience in Ulduar and WWS evidence has them much higher. Normally about mid way if the other DPSers can play well.
PS - Mages can't battle res or innervate.
Post by
Celdhyrean
I'm not saying our raid buff contribution is useless, but in a 25-man raid, it's really difficult to say "i bring this and this and if i'm not there, then the raid will be missing this". There are just too many ways in which most buffs can be brought. Am i bringing half and the ret palli the other half ? One is bringing the full buff and the other nothing ? It's important to look at it when looking at overall raid composition, and most smart raid leaders will (if possible) try to get several of the buffs so that accidental deaths become less detrimental. It's also the reason why i put iFF up all the time even if there's an spriest (that and the crit too :p) But it cannot be listed as a personal contribution anymore, at least in my mind.
In my case, we have 3 elem shamans raiding so there's always 1 at least. 2 spriests, so a little bit less certain but mostly there, and 1 ret so that one is the buff where we have the least overlap.
The argument is much easier to make for 10 mans though.
Post by
176018
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Post by
MegaVolt
I got a moonkin DPS related question:
Why spam Wrath until Eclipse and then Starfire? Why is this superior to Starfire till eclipse and then Wrath?
30% more crit should be exactly the same (in terms of DPS) as 30% more damage, right? Wrath actually has a little more then half the spellpower coefficient of Starfire so it should actually be a little stronger. Why is it not?
Post by
curlymon
Because Wrath's cool down cannot be lower then 1 second and this is very very easy to achieve. And as such you will gain little or no benefit from haste once you get a very small amount of it. In addition Wrath has a travel time and the buffs from the proc only apply if eclipse is up at the time the spell hits. This causes you to mis 1-2 casts worth of wrath in the begining and causes difficulties timing the wraths at the end since you will probably not gain a benefit from the buffs last 1-2 seconds.
Post by
MegaVolt
So if my gear is kind of bad (or just very focused on SP instead of haste) and I am standing close to the enemy there is actually no difference in going for solar or lunar eclipse?
Post by
176018
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
curlymon
You can be very focused on SP and crit AND haste. The only time to consider a Solar rotation over a Lunar rotation is if you are low on haste. Haste is what gives Lunar it's boost and while you can hit 600+ crit rating easily going only for crit, you can just as easily get 500+ crit and 400+ haste for a larger overall gain. Hell you can do it with Nax gear only so Solar is just a booster rotation at best.
Post by
QuestionC
You can be very focused on SP and crit AND haste. The only time to consider a Solar rotation over a Lunar rotation is if you are low on haste. Haste is what gives Lunar it's boost and while you can hit 600+ crit rating easily going only for crit, you can just as easily get 500+ crit and 400+ haste for a larger overall gain. Hell you can do it with Nax gear only so Solar is just a booster rotation at best.
Currently, Solar and Lunar are both viable options. It is currently unclear which one is
optimal
, but simulators show them as very close.
Lunar eclipse being considered the only option is a carryover from 3.0. It is no longer the case.
Post by
curlymon
You can be very focused on SP and crit AND haste. The only time to consider a Solar rotation over a Lunar rotation is if you are low on haste. Haste is what gives Lunar it's boost and while you can hit 600+ crit rating easily going only for crit, you can just as easily get 500+ crit and 400+ haste for a larger overall gain. Hell you can do it with Nax gear only so Solar is just a booster rotation at best.
Currently, Solar and Lunar are both viable options. It is currently unclear which one is
optimal
, but simulators show them as very close.
Lunar eclipse being considered the only option is a carryover from 3.0. It is no longer the case.
The problem with simulators is that they do not take into account various important things such as distance from boss and DPS loss from mobility issues. If I wanted to crawl up the backside of a boss I'd go back to feral...
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