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MM PvE Questions
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Post by
ArgentSun
As my hunter approaches level 80, and after asking a few of my guildmates about MM, it seems like there are a few questions we don't exactly reach consensus on.
Here
is a base spec I am considering. I haven't done the math for it, I haven't found anything extensive and/or convincing, but here is the logic behind it (yes, there are 3 points missing, I am not sure where to put them). Glyphs are subject to change, as I am going to explain:
I did a little shooting at a target dummy (3 levels lower than me, as the others are high for my 73 levels) with Aspect of the Viper on, so I can last longer. After a few minutes, here are the results:
Chimera
Arcane
Aimed
Steady
Auto
Glyphs
My thoughts on the most popular Glyphs are:
Charred Glyph
- For every 90 seconds of fighting, this will allow me to cast one extra
Chimaera Shot
. In an average 6-minute fight, this will be 4 Chimeras. About how much damage would a raiding hunter expect to hit for with CS? Will those 4 Chimeras pay off? I know there is a
thread
about it, but most of the comments are not backed up with numbers, if not logs and/or links...
Charred Glyph
- For every 40 seconds of fighting, this will allow me to cast one extra
. In an average 6-minute fight, this will be 9 Aimed. Right now my AS hits for about half of the damage done by my CS, so if CS Glyph goes in, this one should probably too, as they should give roughly the same DPS overall. Again, how much can I expect AS to hit for? Keep in mind, I thought AS would be good when I was making the talent build, so I've spec'd around +12% damage and +12% crit for it. Subject to change.
Charred Glyph
- This one is no-brainer, I believe. Unless somebody seriously objects, I am keeping this one.
Charred Glyph
- This one will allow me to use
40% more often in those last 20% boss health. The question is, how many Shots will that be? About 2-3 extra KS at most?
Charred Glyph
- I have noticed around 50% of my
Quick Shots
. Without the Glyph, and at 5/5
, that would be ~7.5% passive haste. With the Glyph, it goes up to ~10.5% passive haste. Seeing that Auto Shot is my most damaging shot, roughly 10% damage increase to it would be very beneficial, wouldn't it?
Charred Glyph
- If my Aimed Shot spec actually works, this will give me
another
10% crit on AS. This will add up to 22% (32% with
, but that's granted for every build) extra crit and 12% extra damage on it, and those 22% extra crit (combined with 8 seconds cooldown) will give me quite a bit of extra damage from
Careful Aim
... right?
Charred Glyph
- Right now, in a rotation with 3
s, my SS is one of my most damaging Shots (overall, for the entire fight). With this Glyph, it will go even higher. It looks attractive, but so do the others... :S
Well, that's it for Glyphs. On to rotation (and, yes, I am shamelessly abusing tag usage).
Rotation
I am going to assume that Serpent Sting is already on the monster, and start my rotation from there.
Chimera, Aimed, Arcane, Steady, Steady, Steady
- This is one of the popular rotations. Doesn't look too bad.
Chimera, Arcane, Aimed, Steady, Steady, Steady
- Some people have reported that this one (possible combined with the two CD-reduction Glyphs) is better from GCD point of view.
...To be continued...
I know I've left it very hanging, but I have an awesome idea, and I want to take care of it... In the meantime, I would appreciate it if you answer as many questions as possible!
Post by
snub999
I raid as a MM. My build is almost cookie-cutter, but I made it myself instead of looking at the pre-existing builds, so it's not maximized for DPS. Since I can match my guild's other hunters in DPS, I decided it's not something worth looking at for now. You can see my armory link in my signature. Toxote from Borean Tundra is the raider.
I use the following glyphs:
Steady Shot
Serpent Sting
Volley
Most people might not get the Volley one, but in our 10 and 25 mans, a reduction in mana cost, no matter how small, saves you in the long run. I use volley like mad on packs of trash, and since my volley cannot be interupted, I use it frequently. 20% mana savings is worth it to me. It'll probably get changed later, but it's fine for the moment in Naxx10/25/Ulduar 10.
I do some different rotations on my shots. With my 2.3 attack speed, I can either do all my instant cast shots at once and then SS until they come off of cooldown or I can start with serpent sting/chimera/aimed and then Steady shot in between each instant cast, so something like:
Serpent Sting
Chimera Shot
Aimed Shot
Steady Shot
Arcane Shot
Steady Shot
Chimera Shot
Steady Shot
Etc...
I something, I use chimera within a few seconds after I apply serpent sting. I remember reading someplace that it helps your DPS. If I do it right at the beginning, I have enough time (Glyphed) for the chimera shot to come up again before the sting wears off.
My chimera shots usually hits harder than my aimed shot.
For your glyphs, I would do Steady, Serpent and Chimera. I'll probably switch my Volley Glyph to Chimera shot in the near future.
I'm still new to the MM spec, but my rotations have been respectable. 2.6k DPS on Patchy in 10 man. Higher on 25 mans. :)
Post by
295675
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Post by
BadMojo
You should consider getting silencing shot.
I know the math has been posted somewhere and for one point, assuming mana isn't an issue, you get a meaningful increase in damage since silencing shot doesn't share a CD.
Post by
120885
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
snub999
I know the math has been posted somewhere and for one point, assuming mana isn't an issue, you get a meaningful increase in damage since silencing shot doesn't share a CD.
Not really. Silencing Shot really is a miniscule amount of damage. I dumped it after discovering that it did less than 1% of my overall damage in a fight where I did almost a million damage.
I don't have Silencing Shot for the damage. On Heroics (And other areas, but that's where I used it) where enemies heal themselves, it's nice to be able to do a ranged interupt that stops the heals AND prevents its immediate reuse.
I also PvP with the MM spec I use for raiding. It can't be beat. Oh, you want to DoT me? Nuh uh uhhhuhhh. :)
Post by
Rullis
At the moment I'm using Chimera, Serpent & Killshot glyphs.
I'm seriously considering changing Killshot for Aimed because I've heard alot of rumours this being better.
But at the same time we are just starting to raid hardmodes and so sometimes my killshot glyphs have actually saved us in the end of the fight just as the boss died (people dying and not many alive > boss dying due my killshots mostly.)
So I suppose it's what about you are doing right now as a Hunter..
Heroics, 25man raiding, hardmodes etc
Post by
120885
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Post by
347407
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
120885
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Post by
347407
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Post by
ArgentSun
Try something
like this
.
That's more or less the spec I am going for. I might swap a few points here and there (I like Imp. Steady Shot, so I am probably going to try for it). Right now I am in a semi-leveling build, hence the 2/2
. Unless I have MD ready for my pet, it is usually the CS crit that pulls aggro, and the 4 seconds of Daze allow me to finish most mobs perfectly fine.
Post by
409528
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Post by
snub999
I know the math has been posted somewhere and for one point, assuming mana isn't an issue, you get
a meaningful increase in damage
since silencing shot doesn't share a CD.
Not really. Silencing Shot really is a miniscule amount of damage. I dumped it after discovering that it did less than 1% of my overall damage in a fight where I did almost a million damage.
I don't have Silencing Shot for the damage
. On Heroics (And other areas, but that's where I used it) where enemies heal themselves, it's nice to be able to do a ranged interupt that stops the heals AND prevents its immediate reuse.
I also PvP with the MM spec I use for raiding. It can't be beat. Oh, you want to DoT me? Nuh uh uhhhuhhh. :)
When self-contradictions are present...that's when you know there's something missing in the statements.
You can't self-contradict when you didn't make the first comment anyways. I was just stating an opinion about silencing shot, that happens to appear in the PvE thread.
Post by
120885
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Post by
354608
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ArgentSun
Well, I came up with a couple of rotations (which are similar) and look fairly decent.
0.0 - Chimera
1.5 - Arcane
3.0 - Steady
5.0 - Aimed (Glyphed)
6.5 - Steady
8.5 - Arcane
10.5 - Chimera
12.0 - Steady
13.5 - Aimed (Glyphed)
15.0 - Arcane
16.5 - Steady
18.5 - Steady
---
20.5 - Chimera
22.0 - Arcane
23.5 - Steady
etc
I get 2 Chimeras, 2 Glyphed Aimed, 3 Arcane and 5 Steadies. In a 20-second window, I think that's the most you can fit, assuming your Chimera, Aimed and Arcane are the top 3 shots.
EDIT: I could probably modify it so the two Aimed Shots are not Glyphed and still fit in with 3 Arcanes...
Post by
Abandonment
since ur still on ur way to hit 80 i highly highly highly ZOMG C-C-C-C-c-c-combo breaker! to try surv unless u got a huge amount of uldar epics waiting for u. unless they changed that already i last heard that MM > SV only when high end raiding was involved. pretty nice guide in the begging though u should sticky that to ppl that never ( EVER) read stickies. good luck and pre gratz on lvl 80
With 3 pieces of Ulduar gear, My MM DPS trumps that of my SV DPS, so it's definitely something to look into, MM is a major mana battery so it's not as viable for leveling but bring a ret pally/shadow priest and your golden.
SV is good for leveling due to the explosive basically cutting the mob's HP in half before they reach you, though BM is still king.
Post by
139482
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Post by
ArgentSun
Hmm...
Truth to be told, I completely ignored Quiver haste. Why? Because I didn't see any on a couple of Quivers, and I thought it was removed from the game... for some reason. I'll see how that factors in.
EDIT
: Wait. They don't give haste anymore. I was right.
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