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Mitigation vs. Avoidance
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Post by
302210
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93026
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302210
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Post by
Porcell
What would be a preferred stat?
Armor is 23587
Dodge 21% Parry 19% Block 27% or
Dodge 23.5% Parry 19% Block 21%
thats the difference between using a block trink versus a dodge trink with a stam trink.
In most cases, the 23.5% dodge, 19% parry, and 21% block would be prefered. That is assuming you are in a raid. In a heroic, I'd probably pick 6% block over 2.5% avoidance.
Here's the thing. Block in raids isn't worth it. In your example, I would rather completely avoid a 20k hit 2.5% of the time, rather than mitigate 3k-4k of that hit 6% of the time.
In heroics though, the incoming damage is much smaller, and your 3k-4k block will often totally negate the whole attack, thus making it "the same" as avoidance. Thus in a heroic you would be comparing 2.5% avoidance to 6% "avoidance" and therefore the block would be better. Even in those situations where the attack is not completely blocked, you'll be left taking maybe 1000 or 2000 damage, which is negligible when compared to a tank's health pool these days.
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302210
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Post by
Porcell
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Aman%27Thul&n=Fitf
Here is my armory, can finally link it, my %s were off, but i logged with 2 stam trinks on not 1.
Why why why would you put a +20 dodge gem in your Combat Shotgun, which is a Blue Socket with a +6 Stamina bonus?
There are a few places for improvement in your gear.
You need a shoulder enchant, either Hodir or the +30 Stamina PvP one.
Shoulder gem should not be Expertise/Hit, especially since you are already at over 8% hit; switch this to a Defense/Stamina gem or a Straight Stamina gem (since +4 dodge bonus is marginal).
Chest gems, you should really try and refrain from using Straight Dodge or Straight Defense gems unless it is for a specific reason; switch that gem to a Dodge/Stamina combo gem.
Weapon's gem is okay, since you are below 26 expertise, but in most cases if you were over the expertise softcap you should go for straight stamina instead of socket bonus.
As already mentioned, the Shotgun should have a Straight Stamina gem in it.
Belt gem, feel free to put a Defense/Stamina gem in this to get the +6 stamina socket bonus, especially if this will allow you to ditch your chest enchant for +275 health instead of defense.
Glove gemming, since you are under the 26 expertise softcap, this red socket would be a good place to put an Expertise/Stamina combo gem.
Boot Enchant should be Tuskar's Vitality (15 Stamina + Runspeed).
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302210
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Post by
475417
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Post by
Sakkura
Warriors will be great tanks in icecrown, blocking will be great when the -20% dodge debuff appears :)
No it won't. Blocking a few thousand off a tens of thousands of damage hit still just will not be worth it. This is assuming they don't make gimmicks again, like the adds on Anub hard mode.
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462489
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Post by
Porcell
Warriors will be great tanks in icecrown, blocking will be great when the -20% dodge debuff appears :)
No it won't. Blocking a few thousand off a tens of thousands of damage hit still just will not be worth it. This is assuming they don't make gimmicks again, like the adds on Anub hard mode.
So while I will agree that "great tanks" and "will be great" is overstating it a little bit, block will get relatively better given that they are reducing huge hits coming from bosses.
It doesn't mean that block will be better than Avoidance, by any means. It just means that my 17% block will be less sucky than it is currently.
Post by
marklartank
you can get 102.4% avoidance as a warrior. It is a pain to get that high, but it is possible. I'm working towards a set right now. I'm up to 94% avoidance with roughly 40% block in there. I'm hoping to get to the 102% mark this week with a few upgrades. it is great for add tanking since they don't hit hard in raids, and the fact that you can solo level 60 raids since you have about 3K block value.
just for the record, you can also do that with a (around)60% avoidance gear and herbalism =)
would you mind explaining what you mean by this? if i'm over 60% avoidance you're saying i can switch professions and get 42.6% more from herbalism?
Post by
Porcell
would you mind explaining what you mean by this? if i'm over 60% avoidance you're saying i can switch professions and get 42.6% more from herbalism?
I think he's trying to say that the 3600 heal from Lifeblood (on a 3 minute cooldown) is enough to solo old instances.
I'd disagree...
Post by
Buttery
Dont dismiss block out of hand, Blizz has stated that it wants to go to smaller hits more often for bosses, so block is going to be a lot better in the future. Blocking 3k dmg on a 14k hit every second is gonna be fantastic.
As a warrior tank, you should be stockpiling gear from at least two tiers anyways, especially trinkets.
Post by
Sakkura
Dont dismiss block out of hand, Blizz has stated that it wants to go to smaller hits more often for bosses, so block is going to be a lot better in the future. Blocking 3k dmg on a 14k hit every second is gonna be fantastic.
As a warrior tank, you should be stockpiling gear from at least two tiers anyways, especially trinkets.
They are fixing block for cataclysm anyway, so it only matters for icecrown citadel. I haven't been on the PTR, but I haven't heard of any revolutionary change to the way the bosses there deal damage.
Post by
marklartank
the one thing i've read in an interview was blizz saying they wanted to move away from tanks going from full to dead in 1-2 hits. mostly, it sounds like they are trying to make healing a more enjoyable and interactive role.
how this translates into what we gear for and how valuable block will be is yet to be seen. i'm not making any changes yet.
Post by
Porcell
the one thing i've read in an interview was blizz saying they wanted to move away from tanks going from full to dead in 1-2 hits. mostly, it sounds like they are trying to make healing a more enjoyable and interactive role.
They have said that. They also have said that they expect tanks to die in ICC, so I wouldn't expect any huge changes.
And I know that there are only 29 tanking items so far listed on Wowhead's PTR site, but there are only 3 with Block Rating on them (232 Axe Def/Parry/BR, 232 Helm Def/BR/Exp, and 219 Shield Def/Parry/BR), and 5 with Block Value (A 264 Chest with Def/Exp/BV, and 4 low level 219s with BV from the instances).
So even if BR/BV became some power house... as of yet it's not supported by the gear. And we might have been able to get away with low level Unhittable sets on Anub, but I don't think walking into ICC with 38k buffed health is going to cut it, no matter how much BR/BV gets better. We are going to have to upgrade to ICC gear in order to get the stamina we need to survive.
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