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Mage PVP help?
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Post by
273650
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Post by
StrangerWifCandy
Don't use frostbolt ever, unless you're absolutely sure you can cast it safely. Most of the time you're just going to spam ice lance, fire blast, and CoC. Why instants? Because you need to keep moving. If your opponent gets close to you, you're dead basically (unless it's a hunter, best strategy 1v1 is to stay in his face and burn him up).
Here's a short list of your damage you can do on the run:
Frost Nova + Ice Lance
Shattered Barrier + Ice Lance
Frostbite + Ice Lance
Freeze + Ice Lance
Fingers of Frost + Ice Lance
All of the above + Deep Freeze + Ice Lance
Now combine those with constant Fire Blasts, and your Water Elemental and Mirror Images, and that's definetely no pressure to scoff at.
Of course, just using the above is fairly cooldown dependant, and a mixture of trinkets and other skills can easily negate it. You're always looking to
set up
a kill (e.g. a situation where you can cast a frostbolt safely, and your target is sitting in a nice deep freeze waiting for your FB+ILx2, or at least a regular shatter combo).
P.S. There's no shame in running away. If you see 4 players running towards you, there's absolutely nothing wrong with turning 180 degrees and running for it. Between all of your chills and snares, getting away is a cinch. Just keep a feel of the fight, and when you feel like it's turning sour, get the hell out of there.
Post by
Achloryn
I was going to make a new subject for this, but since there's already a nonspecific mage pvp thread, i'll put it here..
Is anyone else having a RIDICULOUSLY hard time killing paladins? Ret, holy... it doesn't matter.. Holy ones have that ridiculous shield that lets them get out of anything that i'm wasting most of my mana trying to spellsteal it. Ret pallys... well... faceroll... nuff said. but seriously.. what is a GOOD strategy for taking on a pally 1-on-1. i've been able to take on just about any other kind of class with moderatly successful results warriors are broken, so they're easy.. rogues can put up a dang good fight and their silence/cloak abilities are just ridiculous... priests and most other casters are generally all the same... from what i've seen it depends on who gets first jump. feral druids i have SOME issues with, but it depends. trees are easy, just keep spellstealing their HOTs... hunters aren't anywhere near as bad as they used to be since they're not all BM anymore. but paladins... they're just... good god.. i've never gotten a fair, 1-on-1 kill on a pally since patch 3.0 and all the changes to ret.
Post by
273650
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Post by
Achloryn
So frost is better than arcane, correct?
it's really in personal preference. arcane is nice cause ABarr, MBarr procs, and the like make for some sick amounts of burst.. but with Frost you get the ice barrier, and Shatter combos, and Deep Freeze, and Water Ele... it's really a tossup as to which play style you like better.
Post by
99400
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Post by
Achloryn
I prefer Frost, arcane is just spamming ABarr when its off CD, cant stand senseless nuking >.< Love the Control you have over melee classes as a manipulative frost mage >:D (Despite frost being quite pathetic in pvp now WTB the good ol lv 70 Frost pvp again - The Pro Noone stuff)
i would hardly consider frost pathetic in pvp...
Pve, yeah.... but not pvp. Deep freeze alone makes frost a SERIOUS contender for pvp mages. and i personally have used it to great success in battlegrounds... (this is coming from a mage who's TERRIBLE at pvp)
but back to what i was asking earlier... no one has any ideas for paladins? i was dualing a holy pally in our guild the other day and he let me spellsteal myself oom, then kicked the crap out of me... then he switched to his ret dual spec, and facerolled me.. like seriously... ANY ideas would be great.
Post by
57495
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Post by
StrangerWifCandy
If you're going against a paladin, you need a lot of luck, and good mana management.
Retribution
If you can, start off with a sheep. If it lands, use the ten seconds to spellsteal all of his purge fodder. If he trinkets, keep spellstealing, but maintain movement away from him.
Mirror Image. The constant frostbolts will force him to use a significant amount of his mana to cleanse constantly, or push a hand of freedom. Spellsteal HoF if he casts it (probably will), spam your instants, and wait for your ice barrier to break and when it does, DF him the instant he gets frozen, and start spamming lances. This forces either a trinket or a bubble.
If it's a bubble, go invis and evocate if you have to, or if he's continuing to pursue you while immune, just ice block to buy time. If it's a trinket, you're in for a longer fight, you want your ice barrier back, and you want to lure out another HoF with constant snares, and a frost nova, and then get him in another Shattered Barrier->Deep Freeze.
After the bubble, water elemental, icy veins, instant cast spam, spellsteal HoF's, and when it's on CD, shatter combo away.
You want to force him into his bubble ASAP, because against a ret paladin, you're not going to win the mana fight, because he has replenishment, and cheap attacks. The only benefit to dragging out the fight BEFORE the bubble is that when he finally goes into it, he'll have much less mana to heal himself with.
Holy
Start off with a sheep and spellstealing all of his purge fodder. Stealing Blessing of Wisdom is a very good plus here. Oh yeah, you want to be in mage armor for this. Make sure you have all 3 charges of your mana gems, and a stack of food. Get ready for a long fight.
This is a mana fight
. If you and the paladin stand still and he lets you chuck frostbolts at him chain-cast, you'll go OOM and he'll be able to heal through the entirety of your damage and still have 50% mana to work with. The only way I've ever been able to win a fight like this is by stretching his cooldowns and catching him while his defenses are low.
If you go OOM at any point in the fight, you're practically doomed.
Same as ret. Force the HoF, and after spellstealing it, capitalize on it by locking into a DF+IL spam (Casting a frostbolt gives them too much time to think). Stay relatively close so when your Ice Barrier breaks, he's in range of Shattered Barrier.
When Trinket+Bubble+HoF is down, and you're inside the 6 second window between Sacred Shield, and he's at least below 70% blow Mirror Image+WE+Icy Veins and nuke him to kingdom come. Frostbolt spam and pet attacks are too much for holy shock alone to heal through, so wait for his health to get to 60% or 50%, counterspell the FoL, WE Freeze FB+DF, FB+ILx2, and you've hopefully just won the duel.
It's a very long and complex strategy and relies on patience as you wait for the paladin to make a mistake, but it's what I've found to be successful. Until the killing threshold, you're spamming ice lances per shattered barrier and frost novas, and you're using Deep Freeze to force cooldowns and/or heals.
Hybrid Holy/Ret
Holy paladin with Repentance and Replenishment. Looking bad already, you're never going to win in a mana fight.
Bend over.
Kiss your butt goodbye.
I've never beaten one yet in 1v1, you're on your own, sorry.
Well, that's what I do against paladins, I'd appreciate it if someone came up with a strategy that's much easier to execute and has more room for error, but all I see outside of Orgrimmar these days are rogues and mages.
Post by
204878
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Post by
Achloryn
I disagree with the "frost has better survivability" idea. I use
this (68/0/3)
as my PvP spec and the 160 all resistances and instant invisibility helps me survive a hell of a lot more than Ice Barrier and CC ever did when I used frost for PvP.
it's all in personal preferences.. if you're not used to one spec, but used to another of course you're gonna survive better regardless of what talents you've got going for you. Most people say that frost has better survivability because Ice barrier glyphed has an over 4k damage absorption.. add the shattered barrier to your normal frost nova and a water elementals freeze abilities, and that's 3 instant snares right there within the same cooldown. and then deep freeze also makes them totally stunned for 5s. things like that give the frost mage many more... "oh @#$@" buttons. although, i will wholeheartedly agree that the instant invis from prismatic cloak is a sick talent.. it's all in your personal preferences
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