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King Varian and Ulduar
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Post by
Elrael
Warning, spoilers
about the Ulduar trailer here. If you haven't seen it, go watch it
here
.
I understand that King Varian had a harsh past and enough reason to dislike large (if not all) aspects of the horde. But at the end of the trailer didn't he just say the he wouldn't help at Ulduar and that that is the problem of the Horde and the Kirin Tor? And isn't the King of Storm Wind the main spokesman of the alliance?
Did he just say that the alliance wouldn't take part in fighting against Yogg-Saron? If so does that mean every alliance raider is per default ignoring the (Storm Wind's) king words?
And what kind of impact should this have on the alliance lore and the hardcore role players. (In theory the king said raiding Ulduar is the same as helping the horde)
Or am I seeing this wrong and was he just angry when he said that, but didn't mean not to help at Ulduar?
Post by
buzz3070
no i think you misunderstood it (btw i was gonna make a thread like this but ya beat me to it) the king will do something to deal with yogg saron but in his own way he will never team up with the horde because he still views them as the blood thirsty monsters they were during the 1st and second wars. i actually hope the horde and allience will become allys
Post by
Patty
Well, it is important to remember that Yogg-Saron is more powerful than either Thrall or Varian.
Also, Thrall is warchief over ALL the Horde, there is no un-disputed leader of the Alliance really, except perhaps Jaina, but she is not leader of any playable faction.
Varian may not be willing to fight Yogg-Saron, but I am sure the other leaders of the Alliance are, especially the dwarven king...seeing as it's his brother who assaulted Ulduar in the first place.
Post by
166613
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Post by
182348
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Post by
linkslife
Looking back at the trailer, I didn't quite understand what Varian had meant at first when he said "Your Horde". Should have been obvious, but it was pretty early in the morning. First of all, great machinima. Blizz has out done themselves here, and I can not wait for more!
I suspect that there is more at play with Varian but since I haven't kept up with comic as of late, I can't say for sure. However, I find his stance on this whole thing to be insane. He is making enemies with a lot of people with his attitude. I'm amazed Rhonin didn't kick the crap out of him (I have to say, Rhonin was pretty awesome here even if I still don't like him. Damn you Knaak!).
Either way, this brings up a lot of questions. Namely, why the hell Thrall still hasn't done something about Garrosh. I understand that he is the son of the man who freed Thrall's people, but still. Doing stupid crap like that doesn't help the situation! I have a feeling that Varian and Garrosh are going to meet their makers... in the form of the Lich King. Only then will Varian go "Crap, I should have worked with the Horde!"
...Or he could die still hating them. Either way, we all win! One less moron in the world, and one step closer to total Scourge domination! ...Or maybe that's just me... >_>
Post by
229054
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Post by
Elrael
Thanks for some interesting views and all replies. ^^
Well, it is important to remember that Yogg-Saron is more powerful than either Thrall or Varian.
Also, Thrall is warchief over ALL the Horde, there is no un-disputed leader of the Alliance really, except perhaps Jaina, but she is not leader of any playable faction.
Varian may not be willing to fight Yogg-Saron, but I am sure the other leaders of the Alliance are, especially the dwarven king...seeing as it's his brother who assaulted Ulduar in the first place.
Maybe I have been horde to long and so used to the fact we have one leader. And I kinda forgot poor Brann. He must have seen something more then the movie shows us, he is so scarred, so unlike himself. I also guess leader like Velen and Tyrande really see the treat for what it is. And the gnome leader (who I keep forgetting) probably stand behind Magni.
Jaina is far from a leader of the alliance. In fact as far I remember it she was the only one that listened to Medivh and fled The Eastern Kingdom. Then after the battle of Hyjal the Horde and the Jaina Alliance had a small period of peace. I believe then some plot happened in a book(I didn't read) and ruined the peace, resulting in Jaina joining the alliance again.
Jaina also still believes the horde and alliance can work together, live together and thats why she is acting as diplomat of the Kirin Tor now.
Looking back at the trailer, I didn't quite understand what Varian had meant at first when he said "Your Horde".
He said that to Rhonin and I guess he meant "your ideas of so called new horde".
Either way, this brings up a lot of questions. Namely, why the hell Thrall still hasn't done something about Garrosh. I understand that he is the son of the man who freed Thrall's people, but still. Doing stupid crap like that doesn't help the situation! I have a feeling that Varian and Garrosh are going to meet their makers... in the form of the Lich King. Only then will Varian go "Crap, I should have worked with the Horde!"
Yeah I'm missing something In Garrosh life. He gone from a emo kid that didn't care about anything to a really angry orc that keeps saying Thrall is doing it wrong. All because he heard what his father did? Weren't Thrall and Garrosh fighting during the scourge invasion as well?
Both Garrosh and Varian seem to be more building a plot for (a even deeper) hate against the two player fractions. If we keep fighting among each other The Lich King will steal the Ulduar loot!
I don't think either of them is really corrupt, although it is possible, but something big is going to oil the flame of hate.
Post by
LordMerlock
I think the important part lies in the very end of the trailer where Rhonin asks in a thoughtful grim manner, "Who will stand and face Yogg-Saron?"
Varian did deny the Horde and the Kirin Tor aid, but whether that means he is or isn't going to do something about Ulduar doesn't matter.
Adventurers (our playable characters) aren't under the king's direct authority. He may be the ruler of Stormwind and the head of the Alliance, as it were, but he isn't a tyrant, he's a monarch, which is a governmental system rather than a dictatorship.
So whether adventurers from the Alliance go teaming up to fight Yogg-Saron or not isn't really his business or would concern him much anyway, just as long as we aren't strolling through Orgrimmar hugging orcs...so to speak. o.O
Jaina is far from a leader of the alliance. In fact as far I remember it she was the only one that listened to Medivh and fled The Eastern Kingdom. Then after the battle of Hyjal the Horde and the Jaina Alliance had a small period of peace. I believe then some plot happened in a book(I didn't read) and ruined the peace, resulting in Jaina joining the alliance again.
Huh? Since when is Jaina part of the Alliance?
She obviously has an affinity for the Alliance since she's human, because of her former friedship with Arthas/Uther/etc. and so on (much like Dalaran had always had an affinity for the Alliance), but she's the leader of the independant city of Theramore, last I checked. Pretty much as independant as Dalaran is.
Or did I miss something about Theramore becoming part of the Alliance? I mean, sure, in the game it's attackable by Horde but not by Alliance, but strictly politically/lore-wise, I can't recall anything about it being part of the Alliance.
Post by
Patty
A post on the official eu forums made me laugh...
Varian looks more and more like a Death Knig- *claps a hand over his mouth*
Oh crap. No, Blizzard, no! I DID NOT JUST GIVE YOU A NEW ARTHAS!"
Just think about it for a while, kinda makes sense... O:
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=8704651807&sid=1&pageNo=6
for citiation.
Post by
109094
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Elrael
Or did I miss something about Theramore becoming part of the Alliance? I mean, sure, in the game it's attackable by Horde but not by Alliance, but strictly politically/lore-wise, I can't recall anything about it being part of the Alliance.
It was an alliance expedition. Its guarded by stormwind guards There are a bunch of the quests give stormwind rep. Alliance mages can teleport there. Seems fairly soildly an alliance place to me.
Jania is alliance too btw, though as you rightly pointed out she has an affinitie for the horde (or at least Thrall).
There was a book (Cycle of Hatred!) that discriped the four years between the battle of Mount Hyjal and WoW at the first launch. In the book a Shadow Council inflitrated Theramore and Orgrimmar and planted "fake" evidence dat Humans and Orcs were fighting. Then a real war broke out and the peach between the orcs and human shattered, resulting in Jaina needing the assistants of the Alliance.
One the low level quests for Trolls/Orcs also include attacking a Theramore fortress.
She joined the Alliance in a way, but when Dalaran returned she didn't hesitated to join them as ambassador. ;P As seen in the movie(s).
P.S. I did read the book like 4 years ago and forgot most of the details and the name. I didn't own the book. :<
Edit: the book i meant was Cycle of Hatred.
Edit: To much English fail. Typing Lore doesn't work early in the morning. Sorry for that mistakes/typo's.
Post by
Haxzor
Or did I miss something about Theramore becoming part of the Alliance? I mean, sure, in the game it's attackable by Horde but not by Alliance, but strictly politically/lore-wise, I can't recall anything about it being part of the Alliance.
It was an alliance expedition. Its guarded by stormwind guards There are a bunch of the quests give stormwind rep. Alliance mages can teleport there. Seems fairly soildly an alliance place to me.
Jania is alliance too btw, though as you rightly pointed out she has an affinitie for the horde (or at least Thrall).
WoW isnt all of Warcrafts lore.
Post by
LordMerlock
The forces at Tiragarde Keep in Durotar are the forces commanded by the deceased Admiral Proudmoore, of Kul'tiras and the former Alliance, not the current one or Theramore. The forces there are basically out of the loop of recent events. The admiral gave them their orders before his death and before all the recent events (as described the low level Horde quest that starts with finding a letter in a lockbox in Tiragarde).
And the guards in Theramore aren't Stormwind guards, they're Theramore guards. Just because they're human and the races of Theramore are all Alliance doesn't make Theramore the same
faction
as the Alliance.
In Warcraft III, Jaina's armed forces were a separate faction as well. I'm pretty sure she's quite neutral.
Hence dealing with both Thrall and Varian, both Horde and Alliance.
She just wants peace between them, not siding with either.
Post by
Elrael
In Warcraft III, Jaina's armed forces were a separate faction as well. I'm pretty sure she's quite neutral.
Hence dealing with both Thrall and Varian, both Horde and Alliance.
She just wants peace between them, not siding with either.
As far as I see the it she may be neutral, but Theramore isn't. Makes Jaina sad. Intresting the only group that doesn't listen to Jaina's idea of peace are the alliance/humans. The Kirin Tor and Thrall agree with her.
Post by
Patty
I am counting on Varian's son to throw his teddy bear at his dad and slap some sense into him. >_>
I personally think he is being possessed by something, I don't know what...but he seems really trigger-happy.
Garrosh Hellscream is probably going to try and fragment the Horde because he openly thinks Thrall is weak, So Saurfang should really put him down with a quick cleave...
Everyone else just wants to work together...thing is if the Alliance or Horde try downing the Lich King, or even Yogg-Saron, solo...they will fall flat on their faces I think.
Post by
109094
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Post by
Elrael
Theramore aren't Stormwind guards, they're Theramore guards. Just because they're human and the races of Theramore are all Alliance doesn't make Theramore the same
faction
as the Alliance.
The Injured Alliance Soliders that you heal as part of the first aid quest within Theramore would disagree.
Doesnt matter what way you try to spin it, Thereamore is an member of the Alliance
To end this I just be lazy and copy paste from wowwiki.
Theramore Isle
Not only is Theramore Isle the Alliance's only heavily fortified stronghold in Kalimdor and the capital of the Dustwallow Marsh, it is also the official home of the new Alliance in Kalimdor.
It appears that despite Jaina's efforts, some people in Theramore continue to desire ill upon the orcs.They have attacked Balandar Brightscar ships and stolen his cargo and his first mate. Lieutenant Caldwell also displays a hatred for Horde and executed Paval Reethe for alleged involvement with the Horde.
Some banners also display the "L"-like symbol of the Alliance of Lordaeron, clearly indicating the city's roots.
Even trough Jaina is the ruler, the citizens are still alliance, humans, etc.
Anyways this is offtopic(I started it, I finish it!), and my main question has been answered.
Go ahead and talk about mister angry and mister angry (Garrosh and Varian) but Jaina is diffirent topic. ;p Unless it's her part in the Ulduar Trailer, ambassador of the Kirin Tor and the main person that tries to make peace between the horde and the alliance.
Post by
104395
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Post by
Tahoma
I know it's not about the same NPC, but it's related to the same video. Ok we know why King Varian is so against the Horde especially after what happend at the Wrath Gate (Horde/Thrall show they didn't really controlled well allies which lead to a lot of A and H dead). However, why is Garosh so blood thirsty ? He knows what expectations Thrall has from him, yet he acted against Thralls wish. I read something which happend between Thrall and Garosh in Ogrimmar before WotLK in the world event. But I still dont understand how come Garosh, who didnt want to be like Grom. . .is now like Grom.
Sorry for my bad english.
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