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Judgment of Light - holy smokes!
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Post by
enaudible
I learned recently the logic of the priority system for paladin judgments in a raid.
Ret = JoL, Prot = JoW, Holy = JoJ. (assuming 3 paladins)
I ran a PuG 25 VoA last night.
A top DPS ret pali from my guild, who had always previously judged JoW while I did JoL, switched with me at my suggestion.
On Archavon, a fairly extended fight, he bumped me from my rightful spot at healing done (MH with Bacon) by 1%. He had 21%, I had 20% healing done. Was he healing? No. Was he top DPS? Yes!
OMGWTFBBQPWNZORZ! Holy mother of God!
Is this correct? Do you think this will be nerfed?
Or were my meter borked (I know they weren't...)?
Post by
Dunsinane
In any fight with significant AoE damage, Judgement of Light counts for a LOT of healing. Twenty people getting a few hundred health back every five seconds adds up quickly. Back when those heals still caused threat, this meant that prot pallies were the automatic choice for MT on fights such as Sapphiron, simply because there was no way to keep aggro off of them.
Post by
enaudible
That makes more sense.
Basically, what I saw in that fight should likely be limited to 25 man groups with AoE damage... That seems reasonable.
Thanks for the comment!
Post by
161859
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Post by
enaudible
We would likely be better off over-writing the JoW. The ret pali in question above had double my JoL heals, at 700 raid buffed. I wouldn't want to lose that, even for a brief time in any significant boss fight.
Post by
Dunsinane
If you have multiple paladins available, Holy should usually be judging Wisdom. Prot can judge Light (which will be stronger than Holy's due to the AP conversion) or Justice (if there is a Ret Paladin around for Light) to keep their debuffs up.
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278544
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161859
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Post by
svirve
We would likely be better off over-writing the JoW. The ret pali in question above had double my JoL heals, at 700 raid buffed. I wouldn't want to lose that, even for a brief time in any significant boss fight.
Very bad idea if the Prot pally is doing JoW. Prot Paladins use their judgments to slow attack speeds, thus reducing damage. If you overwrite it, then you just increased their damage intake. PLUS, if you have any mages, you just dropped the damage of their main nuke by 12% since they use TTW. Overwriting a Prot Paladins judgement is MUCH MUCH worse than overwirting a Ret Paladins judgement. Very bad idea. Never do it.
Like I said earlier, the Ret Pally will over-write yours within 8 seconds, so it's no big deal from a healing aspect. However, increasing damage to your tank and reducing mage DPS by up to 12% for 9 seconds can have a much more negative effect. I would advise that you don't get in that habit.
Did you win an exaggeration contest in school?
Sure it's better to overwrite the ret paladins Judgement than the prot paladins but it's not like you're gonna wipe your raid and crash the world servers just because you overwrite the prot paladins judgement.
Most paladins can do without the 20% haste decrease in fact alot of paladins do skip it because they can get mana starved (well wont be a problem now that we have constant DP) with it.
As for TTW and mages that makes no sense to me. But if it's gonna reduce every mage in your raids damage by 12% blizz really should rethink what they have done to this game.
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161859
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Post by
Mileron
Most paladins can do without the 20% haste decrease in fact alot of paladins do skip it because they can get mana starved (well wont be a problem now that we have constant DP) with it.
What do you mean by "now we have a constant DP"? Did something there change?
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=53585
It's shiny.
Post by
svirve
when you are working on new content, understanding these concepts is something you probably want to know. It shouldn't cause a wipe, but it's all part of getting the most out of your raid.
I totally agree, min-maxing is imo the key to succes since you dont progress if you're wiping at 1%.
What do you mean by "now we have a constant DP"? Did something there change?
Guarded by the Light
Cast DP once and it will be up for as long as you're hitting something.
Look up the tooltip. It's intended to work with abilities from all tanks (like Thunderclap from warriors, judgements from Tankadins, etc...). I didn't really know this until my mage recently hit lvl 80. You can see quite a big difference in your DPS. Especially if you have multiple Holy Paladins in the raid overwriting the tank's judgment.
Didnt have the slightest clue as to what
TTW
was ;p Found it in their talent tree now though.
Though the tooltip makes me question does it work with abilites that reduce haste?
It specifically sais "snared or slowed targets."
JotJ
doesnt slow or snare a target it reduces melee attack speed.
Seems highly unlikely to me that it would activate TTW but then again blizzard are quite bad with their tooltips.
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161859
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Post by
129299
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Post by
svirve
I would guess that only Tankadins will have this talent since it's so deep in the Prot tree.
Indeed only tankadins will have it but i guess this way it serves it's original purpose. Seeing as the 50% less healing wasn't a turn off enough for holy paladins ;p
I thought we were talking about Holy Pally judgements...and Holy gets 15% haste from JotP. That is really the only reason Holy will judge at all (when other Paladins are present). Now that they have removed the added range to Judgement of Justice, it makes it much harder to use as a Holy Paladin. Only judgments of Light and Wisdom have a 40 yd range.
Just have the prot paladin do justice and the holy do wisdom it doesnt matter who does wisdom since it's based on the person that procs the effect and not who casts it.
And it has been confirmed that JotJ does proc TTW. As does a warrior's Thunderclap, etc... Mages take that talent because every tank has a talent that procs it, and can keep it up for pretty much 100% of a fight. Blizzard also confirmed in a blue post that this was the intent.
Blue Post Thread
In particular:
4) Torment the Weak – now works with Arcane Blast and does bonus damage to targets afflicted by any kind of slowing effect (e.g. Thunder Clap).
Ah once again blizzard prevails at making misleading tooltips!
As Snarvelbug said it's a matter of adapting yourself to the rest of the raid and we've gone pretty much off topic here ^^
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