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Incoming feral nerfs
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Post by
241152
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Heckler
These are tiny tiny nerfs, in high level gear you will barely notice. I think its designed to nerf down a freshly dinged 80 kitty more than anything, as they will be hit the hardest by these changes. Either way, we're doing very good DPS, and if blizz wants to fine tune it downwards a little, thats no skin off my back, we'll still be amazing.
Post by
windstrum
It's been suggested that these are a token gesture, to silence those complaining about kitty DPS being OP in raids. Of course, no one can say for certain the real reason except Blizzard themselves.
Post by
241152
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Heckler
Here I just slapped this together. It doesn't calculate any talents or buffs (not even mangle) but should be a decent estimate as to the relative nerf size. Things that increase damage by a set% will scale (like Mangle).
edit: as with anything I post, I just did this math, and it may be wrong. don't take this as gospel, its really more of a semi-educated guess.
Only max ranks shown, Talents / Buffs not calculated (tooltip values used)
Used a 0-AP 'Weapon Damage' of 54.8dps; +14-AP = +1 weapon damage
3000 AP 7000 AP
BEFORE AFTER NERF% BEFORE AFTER NERF%
Mangle
1172 1102 6.0% 1744 1674 4.0%
Rake
(init) 220 207 6.0% 260 247 5.1%
(tick) 567 540 4.7% 807 780 3.4%
Rip
(tick) 674 643 4.5% 874 843 3.6%
Shred
1348 1274 5.5% 1991 1916 3.7%
edit2: in hindsight, I probably shoulda done like 10k AP, shows how nubly I am. oh well.
Post by
Aadramelekh
7000 AP is the AP value usually attained by druids in lvl 213 gear (especially a weapon of lvl 213) so it's pretty good as an average value.
I am decked in mostly lvl 226 items and I have a lvl 232 weapon and I sport about 7750 AP self buffed with MotW. So the 7000AP value should provide good comparison terms. All in all, a 3-4% nerf isn't gonna make or break my DPS.
Bad ferals will be bad, skilled pussy cats will still top the charts.
Post by
Slimda
I tested it on the PTR. I went from 4.1k DPS to 3.9k DPS. On the combat-dummy, of course.
Post by
Aadramelekh
Pffff from 4.1K to 3.9K? All that ArP in your gear is seriously gimping your DPS, trust me on this. And I recommend 2xT8 as well until you get 4xT8. Seriously =|
Post by
Slimda
Well, the copy I made had only like 3-4 10man ulduar-items in total. I've been really unlucky on the gearing-side. I'm passing 55% crit raidbuffed now. :-)
But maybe I'll give Agility a try someday soon. We'll see.
(PS; I have 2t8/2t7 right now.. I only have 3 pieces of t8 in total.)
Post by
Slimda
Indeed, it's largely based on RNG. But, my 5minute-test was just to get a certain insight. I could see I would get a DPS-nerf, but hardly anything large.
Now I can get 58% crit unbuffed whenever mongoose and greatness procs at the same time. <3
Post by
Aadramelekh
Mongoose? Eck. That's a tanking enchant. It offers too little compared to Berserking in terms of DPS enhancement. Even the 110AP Massacre enchant is better.
Post by
Heckler
According to Toskk, using my (sub-standard) gear:
+85 AP: + 23.2 dps
+110 AP: + 30.0 dps
Berserking: + 41.5 dps
Mongoose: + 26.9 dps
Executioner: + 11.3 dps
Post by
pelf
Aa doesn't like to listen to what Nightcrowler says :).
Post by
Aadramelekh
It's not that. But seriously, 120 AP and ~1.4% crit from the Mongoose proc (haste is COMPLETELY negligible) is inferior to 400 AP (with almost the same average up time).
The question of 'one lacks AP or lacks crit' is moot.
There is no such thing as 'enough AP' or 'enough crit'!
PS: there IS, however, the notion of 'enough ArP'.
Post by
Lightrain
I don't actually have an 80 druid, how much will -10% off the base of an attack be once you factor in other stuff? -2%?
I read on EJ(or I saw a quote of EJ...) a while ago that in raid, this will be around a 1.8% nerf.... I'm not complaining.
Post by
Strongpaw
Bad ferals will be bad, skilled pussy cats will still top the charts.
I agree totally with this statement, I think the problem non-Druid people have historically had with the Druid class is that we have
always found a way
and generally have historically had to play better than the next guy to get the same result.*
So whenever we get better tools we tend to get called OP cause the higher skill floor means the average druid is usually better, then say, a equally geared rogue. This isn't a cut down on rogues or any other class, it's just that we have at least in the top 3 really complicated DPS rotations and many of the moves that other classes take for granted we have to go through many steps to complete.
Stun-locking for example, if you can learn to effectively and consistently lock someone down as a feral druid then you are probably a competent player.
*Granted it's not as evident as it was Pre-BC to patch 2.0, so your mileage may vary.
Post by
Slimda
Mongoose? Eck. That's a tanking enchant. It offers too little compared to Berserking in terms of DPS enhancement. Even the 110AP Massacre enchant is better.
Oh, really? I've had great results with it, compared to the Berserking-enchant. The 120 agility I get -quite- often is of much more value than straight AP is for me. I get a higher crit-rating, and that is something I treasure. Once I move closer to BiS-gear, mongoose only improves in power.
Either way. It works for me, and I continue to totally dominate the DPS-meters (with the exception of certain fights, like Kilogram).
Post by
pelf
If you look at the simulation numbers in the FBN thread on EJ, Berserking, Massacre and Mongoose are very close in terms of performance, and Mongoose increases in value as your gear level increases. I would say that any of them would be "right" choices.
The question of 'one lacks AP or lacks crit' is moot.
There is no such thing as 'enough AP' or 'enough crit'!
PS: there IS, however, the notion of 'enough ArP'.
Now, now, if you were going to PS there being enough ArP, to be completely accurate there also is such thing as enough crit at the point where you stop increasing your crit chance due to being blocked by the attack table. :)
Post by
Aadramelekh
As far as I know, glancing blows go up to 25% tops of the attack table. Usually much less. So until you get 75% crit (as long as you stay hit/dodge capped)... You get my point :P
Post by
Heckler
As far as I know, glancing blows go up to 25% tops of the attack table. Usually much less. So until you get 75% crit (as long as you stay hit/dodge capped)... You get my point :P
Only white attacks can glance, and since White isn't much % of our overall DPS, I think you could safely consider the cap without Glances on the table.
I believe:
The Yellow Crit cap if you're Hit and Expertise capped is 100.0%
The White Crit cap under the same conditions is 75%.
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